London Bombings

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big G is..........

quite right to ask for answers that we, the public, are entitled to by U.K. law!!!
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quite right to ask for answers that we, the public, are entitled to by U.K. law!!!
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quite right to ask for answers that we, the public, are entitled to by U.K. law!!!
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big.g
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Post by big.g » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:39 pm

Shadow of Light wrote: You ask “so why aint we invading Israel” jees oh G just the same reason why we are not invading north Korea THEY HAVE NUKES, and Israel is a democracy, all this shit has nothing to do with oil yes it becomes a bonus but it is not the point of the statement Death and destruction is .

G this is like masterbation mate that only makes you go blind this shit will make you end up like this
Image
Isreal is a democracy???? - roflmfao!!!!!!!!! so that'll be why theyre killing people in certain regions and they arent allowed to vote, eh???? or is it a democracy like the USA where black people arent allowed to vote in marginal states???? that what you mean??? - lol. and you say masturbation makes you blind - again, i can only see whats right in front of me - funny how some people can't see what incredibly obvious to others!!!!

anyhoo - who sez democracy works???? "democracy" (theory)- politicians get into power and work for the people??? at least thats how its supposed to work. "democracy" (reality) - politicians get into power by making it illegal for certain sections of society to vote - then they tell the people "well, we'll take your ideas on board and if WE think its a good idea and can make money from it, then we'll do it. if WE dont, then get to fuq!!!!!!

there is no democracy in this country - there's STATE CAPITALISM.

ps - if we aint in iraq for oil, then why iss it solely US and UK companies that are controlling the oil and making big profit for it. if we were sincerely there to "liberate the people" then surely we should have liberated the pepople and let them get on with it. let them have their own oil and sell it themselves??? anything other than that is simply a smokescreen of an excuse for being there. there is simply NO other reason for us to be there at the moment. we captured saddam and "liberated the people" ages ago. get my point??? please do tell why were still there and UK and US troops are being killed daily???

this should be an interesting reply - lol. :D:D:D
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"AN INTERNATIONAL WAR ON TERRORISM THAT DOESNT TARGET GLOBAL POVERTY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE" - think about it.!!!

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Post by Shadow Reaper » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:09 pm

On thing about democracy is that there are infact no states that fully practice democracy in the entire world. Democracy implies that every single member of the state has a decision in every matter the state involves itself in.

However, because such a thing is impossible (and infact undesirable. Governments should be able to formulate a response that is approved by the public, that is why we vote for them. We should not have to vote in a referendum every day about pointless matters (i believe Switzerland comes close to this)) there are no fully democratic states in the world.

Israel is more democratic than some though (and not as much as others). As for not letting people in certain regions vote, well its very possible those people in those regions (which will more than likely be Palestinian) will not want to vote for an Israeli government seeing they desire their own within their own nation-state.

[Before someone says im counter-arguing myself here, im not. There are partial democratic states (UK, USA, France etc etc) but no fully democratic states. This is what im saying.]

Plus if you at any point believed at any point democracy really works, well it doesnt. But its the best we've got at the moment. Churchill once said it was the worst form of government than the rest.

If you want to change how the country and the world is run, go and protest.

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Post by Del » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:57 pm

From what I remember, he didn't say it was the worst form of government but "the best of the worst". As an aside, I've always firmly believed that enlightened despotism is the best form of government attainable by man. (And I don't believe peaceful anarchy will ever be realistic).

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Post by Shadow Reaper » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:58 pm

Del wrote:From what I remember, he didn't say it was the worst form of government but "the best of the worst". As an aside, I've always firmly believed that enlightened despotism is the best form of government attainable by man. (And I don't believe peaceful anarchy will ever be realistic).

Soz Del, yeah I did misquote him. I meant to put "the worst form of government, apart from all the rest."

Just a typo.

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Post by Shadow of Light » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:43 pm

G yer loosing it big chap , and your forget I know you if you where made prime minister tomorrow you would do the exact same shit they have done , your as bent and corrupt as the rest of us, feck you are just like me and the other 99.9999999999 percent of the world.

And what the feck are you moaning about Iraq for, just like the rest of us gulf war mk1 you where there watching 24hr news coverage and loving it .....

And your not the most liberal of people now are you ? so what gives with this sanctimonious bullshit.

Even Dels posts highlights what most people really think deep down ( stands up and applauds Del for honesty),
enlightened despotism
Which really means I want the world to be run the way I think it should.

And that is what Iraq , 9/11, 7/7 & Afghanistan is all about ...who's despotic ideas are the strongest ours in the west are hidden under the camouflage of democracy where as the middle east is hidden under a camouflage of fundamentalism.

G mate I am not going to defend Israel but then again I am not going to defend halfwits like mr Avery who are just annoyed they are not in the game.

conspiracy theories as just witch hunts so blame can be directed at one person or party so the rest of us don’t have to feel guilty or face the reality that when you get right down to basics we are all to blame and all equally intolerant to other human being's who don’t belong to what ever ethos or ideology we follow.

The Disney wonderland that was the late 20th century is gone, the world has been at war since the first villages appeared and it will be about untill the last ones disappear, get use to war, get use to corruption, get used to the world not being how you would like it to be, because the world has always been that way and if those 3 things where just as you wanted..Then you would be the only person left alive.

p/s just a small point that the loose change forum delete every time some one post's it

(source time magazine)
estimated cost of 9/11 to the U.S 47 billion dollars
estimated cost of initail war on Iraq and Afghanistan 120 billion dollars
estimated monthly cost of the wars in the middle east 4.5 billion dollars

the cost as we type right here

G and how much money have the made through oil no body's making anything yet look here or will they be for quite a while

Eh the sums don't add up do they neither will they ever, war costs a lot more than oil does.

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Post by big.g » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:30 pm

LOL - firstly SOL, did ya get steve??? sent ya a PM.

youre right about one thing - I did sit and watch 24hr coverage of the 1st gulf war - and loved it at the time. Have to say now that I'm totally and utterly ashamed of my attitude back then. makes me cringe when I think of how I used to support it, used to sit and shout "yeeee-ha" when every missile was launched and an even bigger cheer when a "rag-head" or 3 was blown-up. totally ashamed of myself for that attitude. I wasnt exactly a liberal minded person back then - but then you see things that completely changes your attitude to life and the way we treat others throughout the world, regardless of creed, colour, religion, football team association (lol) etc etc. if i could go back and change the things I said and did then I would - but I cant, eh. however, later in life we can all admit our mistakes and try to change for the better.

we're about to enter the anual capatilist festival here that we all like to refer to as christmas where in the UK alone, we will spend enough money in one month on aftershave/perfume to feed a 3rd world country for a year - and we have the cheek to get upset if we dont like the smell of the aftershave/perfume and get really upset if we dont get enough pressies etc etc while at the same time people in the world have to walk 20 miles a day to get water to survive!!!!!!! and not even clean water at that. THATS THE PROBLEM!!!!!! capatilism, democracy etc etc doesnt work. instead of dropping bombs and killing people in Iraq and Afgahnistan why dont we drop cash????? think about it - if we (the rich countries) stopped bleeding the poorer nations dry for resources, banking interest etc etc and stopped dropping bombs and missiles which cost $200,000.00 EACH and decided to drop cash/food/medicing/buklding materials/education equipment etc etc etc on those countries, then thered never be a need for a war in the first place!!!!!!!! again - instead of dropping a $200,000.00 missile, why not drop $200,000.00 worth of food and medicine. why not drop $200,000.00 of cash in their own currency?????? do you think that people would want to go to war with us if they had a decent standard of living themselves??? - lol. exactly!!!!! what did we drop on iraq???? dunno the figures to be honest, but think about it. say we launched 1000 missiles (and thats an extremely conservative estimate) which cost $200,000.00 each - thats $200,000,000.00 - TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!. SO INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY GIVING THESE POVERTTY STRICKEN PEOPLE THE CASH TO HELP THEM SURVIVE AND GET OUT OF POVERTY, WE DECIDE TO INVENT A STORY OF wmd AND INVADE AND KILL THEM!!! it's wrong m8 - just wrong. if we gave them the cash and resources they wouldnt even consider trying to bomb us. if we stopped taking their oil and let them sell it themselves to make cash and resources, would they still hate the west???? - lol. but no - the US government itself admits that their oil is running out and they have, at best, 20-25 years of supply left before the great americam machine grinds to a halt - and they admit themselves that they have to get a stranglehold in the middle-east to ensure the future of the american capitalist lifestyle.

your fugures from time magazine??? well - ill take your word on them, again, simply because I dont trust Time magazine - look into the people backing and funding that magazine and you'll see why!!!! however - even if those figures are true - it doesnt come anywhere near to the TRILLIONS of dollars that the US government admitted to "losing" the day before the 9/11 attacks. funnilly enough, those trillions of dollars have been swept under the carpet (or rather, the paperwork and hard copies of the figures were moved to WTC7 a few weeks before its "collapse") and the war on "terrorism" has taken presidence.

again, I can only say that an international was against terrorism that doesnt target global poverty is doomed to failure!!!!! think about it.

peace and love folks.

ps - who rigged the poll???? ahhh - could it be here somebody who has the power to do so while everybody else has to sit back and take it without being able to do anything about it???? - lol. :D:D:D

pps - youre right about the loose change forum - exactly the same as this poll admittedly. it's not one I subscribe to atall m8, and beleive it or not - i hadnt even looked at it until you posted the link. thats another problem - people who have the power to delete things and alter things without having to answer to anyone for it. sound familiar??? - lol
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"AN INTERNATIONAL WAR ON TERRORISM THAT DOESNT TARGET GLOBAL POVERTY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE" - think about it.!!!

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Post by Shadow of Light » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:13 pm

G the problem is mate if you dropped money then the wrong people would get it and do with it what they do now . mainly using it to kill people .....everybody seems fixed on iraq all the while genocide is taking place in sudan and somallia , women and children are being tortured and murdered on an industrial scale ...but because it is being done by so called islamic goverments and groups nobody seems to want to tackle the issue .


G It like this multicultral fasade or illusion for a better word, even a taxi journey through my own fair city Glasgow all I see is island communities , intergration is a myth we have hindu areas, muslim areas , chinese areas etc etc...where is this melting pot they keep talking about ? , even as children. kids are sent to catholic,prodestant hindu,islamic schools they are taught sectairanism right from birth.

And we wonder why 4 british born lads did what they did on 7/7 , british means nothing these days ,these lads where just twisted offspring of a failed romantic notion of multiculturism , which we know certainly does not work in the middle east and I dont think it works here ethier.

G the jihad groups like al queda will never lay down their arms, remember 9/11 happened when america withdrew from the international scene not when it was in iraq, your miles of the mark if you think groups like the taliban want peace. they want do exactly the same as what is going on in darfur they want to ethnicly cleanse anyone from their country that does not adhere to sharia law. if we where not there the killing would still be happening just like it is in sudan, more people have died in sudan in the last year than have died in both gulf wars and afghanistan and 99% of them are civillians.

The U.N is as much to blame for current problem's in the world as much as any one country or group, at it's creation it's designation was to make sure genocide would never happened again, well it's has failed not just once but fives times , it is run by international petty buerocarts, like mr anan ...G check out his back ground and you will find a less than savory gentlemen corrupt as the rest of them.

G blaming America or britain for the worlds woes is slightly missing the point, And I would choose american capitalism anytime over middle eastern fundamentalism.

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Post by big.g » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:53 pm

Sol - firstly I do want to tackle the genocide in Somalia and Sudan, but our government doesnt - now why could that be??? surely on the strength of our "humanitarian crusade" in iraq, we should be doing exactly the same in those countries, yeah??? ahhhh, hang on, theres no oil in those countries, is there??? the reason Im concentrating on iraq at the moment is purely because its OUR countries that are the problem there. we have no right to be there in the first place. we had no reason to go in the first place. how would you feel if Iraqi forces invaded the UK and started blowing up streets/houses/schools etc etc and simply said its because "we want to rid your country of that tyrant Tony Blair." different story altogether if the boot was on the other foot. theres no money in it for us in somalia or sudan (yet) potentially, somalia has oil, although yet untapped so dont be surprised if we seddenly discover that they have WMD's and have to move in at some point soon. another reason im concentrating on Iraq is because its our soldiers that are getting killed there - and for what reason. Im still waiting to hear a valid reason of ANY kind for us being there. yet another UK soldier killed today, and another on his death bed as we speak. and for what???? we invaded their country!!!!!!

youre right about the Island comunities - but again, thats not the peoples fault, thats the governments fault for creating those comunities and for creating segregated schooling - this is exactly my point (partially). the government creates certain areas of the cities and moves ethnic groups into them - thereafter, more people from those countries come here and of course they move to the same comunity. they want to be with people from their own culture - would you not if you moved to another country???? - however, the common thing that we all find is money - there is a balanced multi-culture possible, but only if youre rich. again, a capitalist problem. funny how christians, jews, hindus, muslims, blacks, whites, asians etc etc can all live together in suburbs like newton mearns or bearsden - its because theyre all rich!!!!! money makes them friendly towards each other. again, an imbalanced society based on capitalism and greed - with the irony being that the more money you have, the more youre likely to live hand in hand with other people with more money, regardless of their colour/creed/religion etc etc. this, in turn, creats animosity between the island comunities.

about the "4 british lads" that done the london bombings - I still dont see a single shred of evidence that proves they did it - and your comment about how the bombs ripped up through the trains "the blastwaves rebounded" etc etc - then why was all the charred metal on the underside on not on the topside of the train floors. you say it's not rocket science to work out - youre right - it's right in front of your eyes, and if you can work out and prove how the blastwaves rebounded and charred the underside of the ripped metal, then please do if it's so simple - because the simplest explanation is the one youre denying.

the Jihad groups will lay down their arms if their countries are stopped from being stripped of all assets for money by western capatilist countries - thats what they're fighting for. NONE of their religions call for them to kill people - NONE of them!!!! thats bullshit created by western governments, again, to give us an excuse. they dont want ethnic cleansing - they want clean, running wqater. they want food. they want the same standar of living that we have - and funnilly enough, were the ones stopping them getting it by imposing huge interest rates on loans from the world bank and by invading their countries and selling their assets for OUR profit. again I ask, why the hell are WE selling oil from Iraq??? why not let the iraqis appoint their own leaders and sell it themselves instead of bombing children and appointing our own "president of iraq"??? MONEY!!!!!!! OIL!!!!!!! again I state that the USA uses approx 20,000,000 barrells of oil per day!!! and at maximum capacity can only produce approx 8 million barrels per day (source - OPEQ). there will always be nutters in every country/continent/comunity - but to invade them and randomly bomb them doesnt, and never has, solved the problem. it never will. again, the ONLY way to tackle terrorism is to end global poverty.

you said in a previos post that we dont invade korea or israel because they have nukes - but did GWB not state that they had "conclusive proof that Iraq could hit the USA with WMD within 45 minutes"??? so again, why invade iraq, but not invade korea or Israel for the exact same reason??? oh aye - korea and israel have no oil!!!!!!!!!

again, youre right about the UN - not denying that - in fact, thats another part of my main point so dont really understand what youre trying to say there.

IM also not solely blaming USA and UK for all the worlds problems - but we're creating a hell of a lot of them which we could end if it wasnt for pure greed.
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"Let's Phuqin Rock"!!!!!!!!!!

"AN INTERNATIONAL WAR ON TERRORISM THAT DOESNT TARGET GLOBAL POVERTY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE" - think about it.!!!

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