911 Loose Change

A forum for serious discussion only - i.e. politics, religion, ethics etc.

Moderators: Shadow Reaper, theblessedsheridan, Casious, Phantom16

User avatar
kojak
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:00 pm
Location: DSOTM
Contact:

911 Loose Change

Post by kojak » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:22 am

Just watched that 911 Loose change - 2nd Edition. Very very VERY interesting movie. Anyone else in here watched it yet???

http://the "TGU" bay.org/details.php?id=3425065&page=1

for "TGU" write pirate.

User avatar
JayeD
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:00 pm
Contact:

Post by JayeD » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:52 pm

Chudziak a.k.a. kojak wrote:Just watched that 911 Loose change - 2nd Edition. Very very VERY interesting movie. Anyone else in here watched it yet???

http://the "TGU" bay.org/details.php?id=3425065&page=1

for "TGU" write pirate.
I've seen it. very interesting altho I want more proof. I want to see his videos but not from him, ie from the original source to confirm they aren't doctored.

btw, it's a legal download. It's on Google Video.

Sheriden
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Sheriden » Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:52 am

JayeD wrote:I've seen it. very interesting altho I want more proof. I want to see his videos but not from him, ie from the original source to confirm they aren't doctored.

btw, it's a legal download. It's on Google Video.
it's legal, yes, but the site he was linking to has muchos illegos stuff on it, so he's just playing it safe..
And yeah, seen it, poses some good questions. I wouldn't go so far as to say the government was in on it, but I do want the official report to reflect the truth, which it currently does not. There are WAayyyyyy too many questions and outright falseries within the official report.

User avatar
JayeD
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:00 pm
Contact:

Post by JayeD » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:36 pm

Sheriden wrote:it's legal, yes, but the site he was linking to has muchos illegos stuff on it, so he's just playing it safe..
And yeah, seen it, poses some good questions. I wouldn't go so far as to say the government was in on it, but I do want the official report to reflect the truth, which it currently does not. There are WAayyyyyy too many questions and outright falseries within the official report.
I know why he edited the link, but just saying the link could be changed to the google one here

Shadow of Light
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 12:00 pm
Location: glasgow
Contact:

first class bullshit

Post by Shadow of Light » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 pm

Bill stop watching shit like this it is pure 100% bull it mixes fact with fiction then adds a lot of supposition .......and comes up with pure fiction.

Sophistry is what this is pure and simple.

Where to start picking this pile of garbage apart ..

1 firstly the 757 that hit the pentagon did not vaporise. it hit a level 12 nuclear resilient building and broke up into a shower of high velocity debris which created shockwave which penetrated the inner shell ,the specs he gives deliberately missed the 16 ft width of the fuselage that perfectly fits the whole in the pentagon.

All his facts are naff for example the smell of cordite in the pentagon …you kidding they have guns in the pentagon ? no big surprise there .

2. wtf is he on about fire brought down the trade centers two large jets crashing into them brought them down, as the trade centers structure takes its strength from the skin of the building , even the architects in charge of it new they where coming down.

The second tower damage was 10x worse as it was hit in the corner destroying the load bearing on 2 of 4 faces .

Again the towers collapse was about their construction the inside collapsed before outside causing the demolition look .

The amount of firsthand comments from the actual day when people where confused and stressed is sick like the secondary explosion yes when a few thousand tons of building gives way it does sound like and explosion.

I am not going to go on taking this crap to pieces, stop watching crap like this .

User avatar
Del
Posts: 1077
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:00 am
Location: currently in Canadia
Contact:

Post by Del » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:32 pm

Fire did take down the World Trade center, there was an investigation into the engineering causes of the collapse which involved the original architect (The purpose being to make future structures more resistent to such attacks) and the conclusiong were that although the crash weakened the structure it is the combustion of the planes' fuels and the numerous combustible materials in both towers which finally caused the steel support beams to bend and then snap. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense since it took a while for the towers to collapse after being hit.

I can't link you to my original source since I learned this in a uni engineering class' video, but if you read this you'll see most recommendations following the investigation are fire realted.


No gripes on other points.

Shadow of Light
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 12:00 pm
Location: glasgow
Contact:

Post by Shadow of Light » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:00 pm

The blast from the impacts destroyed the anti fire coating on the support tressels on several floors in both buildings if this had not happened then the fire would not have caused the floor supports to fail , so the plane impacts where the cause !.

Secondly even if the buildings had survived they would have to be pulled down as the core load bearing in building skin had been comprimised beyond any repair level.

User avatar
kojak
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:00 pm
Location: DSOTM
Contact:

Post by kojak » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:00 pm

Theres some good afterthoughts on the wikipedia page for this movie, which goes a fair way to discrediting large parts of this film, here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_911

But that in itself is a bit dodgy, as wikipedia was used as reference material for the film itself,

"Critics allege that the use of Wikipedia is ill-fitting for a documentary as it is not totally reliable and easy to vandalize. The majority of the articles cited appear to be unvandalized and match the producers' claims of their content"

but you know what, it's all about who you trust and what you believe, and though a large part of me knows that that the majority of this movie is bull, it doesnt change the fact that wholly appropriate evidence pertinent to the heart of this matter has been retained, edited and doctored by the US govt. Bush is a dodgy bastard who, in my opinion, "could" and probably has gone to similar lengths to secure political power, as he needs the planets oil and those countries which supply it, simple economics.

Anyway, the piratebay page i posted because a/ SOL h8s me doin that :) and b/ cause of the removed comments - looks like Bush has a global task force on the planets media. He's worried about something.

Subsequently removed from piratebay page...

[Quotes] b2pilot187 - 2006-01-07 03:41 GMT:

VIRUS WARNING...NOT A MOVIE FILE...DON'T DOWNLOAD THIS INFECTED MATERIAL.


transcout - 2006-01-07 14:44 GMT:

WARNING!! INFECTED FILES!! DO NOT DOWNLOAD!!


transcout - 2006-01-13 22:51 GMT:

ATTENTION!!! VIRUS ALERT!!! DO NOT DOWNLOAD THESE INFECTED FILES!!!


transcout - 2006-02-07 21:56 GMT:

ATTENTION!! PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THESE FILES!! INFECTED FILES WITH VIRUS, VERY HARD TO REMOVE!! [Quotes]



Man, this here internet is the uncontrollable beast every politician must love&hate. Truth & Speculation living side by side.

Dont you just love the fact were discussing this already has the FBI redflagged this page. Ah, just waiting for the knock at the door...

Anyway, pleased to see commonsense prevails amongst the TGU'ers

EDIT: Forgot this link for Loose Change Forum - Class in a glass
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Chang ... hp?act=idx

User avatar
Del
Posts: 1077
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:00 am
Location: currently in Canadia
Contact:

Post by Del » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:53 am

SOL, no one is contesting that the airplanes crashing into the towers and their collapse are related events. However, the buildings survived the initial impact and likely would have not collapsed had the planes contained little fuel.
The weakening of the support structure (including the core for the north tower) was a contributing factor but on it's own was not enough to cause the towers to collapse (Which is why tower one stood for over 100 minutes and tower two for 50 minutes after the crash).
Ultimately it is the fire which brought down the towers.

Just Anonymous
Junior Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:20 am

Post by Just Anonymous » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:42 am

I was looking for some Homeworld 2 info, and saw a link to this thread on the front page. I find it interesting that this topic has been brought up, and has actually been discussed in a rather calm manner. I remember personally being quite upset that some brought up some kind of conspiracy theory about 911 on a Google Earth / Keyhole bookmark forum.

I see that the "movie" Loose Change was mentioned. I hope you all won't mind my registering to help clear up a few things. I won't be sticking around too long, but Lord willing, I may drop back in every now and then over the next few days.

Anyways, regarding 9/11, I have never personally watched all the way through the Loose Change video. I have tried at least twice, but just couldn't do it. I don't like the music, and from what little bits of Loose Change that I've seen, the "movie" has a lot of half-truths mixed in with the real evidence. On the other hand, I have seen a lot of other videos on 9/11 that appear to have some very good evidence. I would like to share them with you. Personally, if I could make any suggestion, please avoide the Loose Change video; and perhaps even commit to checking out at least video #2 below. There is a whole lot of information to consider, so it will take some time to go through it all. Because of the strong emotions related to 9/11, it can often be hard to even get someone to take a look at the info.


1. 911revisited
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1revisited
This video is the most emotive one. The first 15 minutes are mostly just clips from the news. Like someone else brought up, it has clips of people mentioning "explosions;" but of course just because it sounds like that doesn't mean it is explosions. So, feel free to skip the first 15 minutes. After the clips, a scientific ananlysis is presented for the 3 WTC towers that collapsed. This video can mostly be consider an "introduction" to the 911 scientific analysis. To gather more info, you will need to look at the other sources. Factual correction: the owner of the WTC7 who made the "pulled" comment later stated that he was referring to pulling the firefighters.

2. Scientific lecture
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ah+Seminar
This lecture analyzes a lot more aspects regarding 911 than just the 3 WTC towers. It has a more scholarly presentation than the first video. Feel free to skip the short introduction by the first person in the video.

3. Scientific lecture
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ay+Griffin
Another scientific lecture from another individual. Go to 7:20 to skip the introductions and get to the meat of the lecture.

4. Nearly absolute proof that thermate (a demolition compound) was used on all 3 WTC towers
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +symposium
Starting at exactly 1hr into the video, Steven Jones talks about how the molten steel from the towers has been scientifically analyzed, and that it shows the presence of thermate (a demolition compound). Skip to 50:20, if you want the background information on thermate. Steven Jones is currently awaiting peer review regarding the thermate.

5. How 911 fits with history
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... rror+storm
It covers topics not included in the 911 lectures. It has parts that are not really very enjoyable, so feel free to skip some sections. The most interesting parts include pieces of history before 911 and the London bombings.

6. Risks to our freedom
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +jones+law
This video covers various ways that our freedom has been compromised. It also shows, how large groups of 911 protestestors are ignored.

7. Radio show
http://prisonplanet.tv/listen.html
A radio show that goes even deeper into issues, of which 911 is a part.

8. More:
There are so many more videos to see (not sure if they are any good), but here's some links:
A collection of scholars studying 911:
http://st911.org/
Lectures from Steve Jones
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Steve+Jones
Lectures from David Ray Griffin
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=David+Ray+Griffin
911 Symposium (meetings) - not as good as the lectures
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=911+symposium

--------------
Here's an overview of the info you'll find in each video:
Video #1:
* Shows squibs in the WTC towers as they fall down (which are present during controlled demolition of buldings; does not necessarily prove explosions, since it could also be compression of air randomly).
* The buildings fell at "free fall" speed. The official 9/11 theory is the pancake collapse theory. The bulidings cannot fall at free fall speed under the pancake theory.
* Concrete was pulverized to dust. If the official pancake collapse theory were true, then this is not possible. Due to various laws of physics, there is not enough energy to both collapse a level and pulverize the concrete at the same time.

Video #2

* Free fall speed
* Demolition like collapse of WTC 7 buliding, which was not hit by a plane, had little damage, and had only small fires on two levels.
* The 911 "Bin Laden" confession tape is NOT Bin Laden. You can clearly see they are different people. Scientific facial analysis also shows this. Also, the real Bin Laden released a tape after 911 claiming he did not do it. Bin Laden is still wanted by the FBI for a past terrorist act, however, but not 9/11
* Presence of molten metal at the bottom of all 3 WTC buldings. Analysis, as shown in video #4 proves that the stuff contained thermate - a demolition compound that cuts through steel either by melting it or explosively (depending on how it's made). Additional studies show that thermate was not used by the cleanup crew.
* Gives an introduction to the PNAC, in which several members of the current government, including the Vice President expressed how beneficial a new "Perl Harbor" like event would be to their goals presented in PNAC.

Video #3
I've forgotten most of the stuff in this one, but he does cover the 4 different views of 9/11: Those who believe the official story, another group, those who believe the government let 9/11 happen, and those who believe the government made it happen. He tries to present some evidence in support of the 3rd, and ultimately the 4th view (that the government was involved).
Video #4

* Steven Jones presents a lecture on recent studies that has been made on the metal from the WTC. The metal shows signs of thermate (described earlier).
* Shows how news footage from 9/11 show pictures thate are very likely thermate coming out of the towers.
* He also covers some other random topics, including what peer review is and how it works and how he was introduced to 9/11

Video #5

* This video delves a little deeper into some of the issues relating to 9/11: covers the topic of "false flag" terrorism, where governments have allowed or stated a terrist attack to achieve some goal.
* Interesting notes on the London bombings

Video #6
Just some extra stuff to see, after you've seen the other data.

Locked

Return to “Serious Discussion”