New Orleans....It's like a movie

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Post by Gust0o » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:10 am

Shooting at helicopters? Now that's some way to get rescued!

Only in America... surely?

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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:23 am

No, people shoot at our helicopters all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan... ;)

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Post by The_One » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:23 pm

[quote="Pierce 2: The Sequel"]No, people shoot at our helicopters all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan... ]

I seem to recall the first British deaths in the Iraq war were also caused by you shooting at one of our helicopters.

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Post by Shadow Reaper » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:12 pm

This has got little to do with Iraq, apart from perhaps most of the Mississippi and Lousiana National Guard being there, so try and keep it on topic.

If you wanna discuss the finer points of friendly fire in relation to the conflict in Iraq, start a new topic.
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Post by Cleron » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:39 pm

The super dome was turned into a rape and terror camp apparently. Lots of groping, threats & bashings. Rape was common enough that people tried to move in groups if they wanted to go to the toilets. That's from some of the people who were trapped there. Yes there are also sniping and random killings for god knows why but there have been rumors that rival gangs were fighting over left overs. I know some poor ferry captain got sniped while trying to get people out so things are still pretty bad over there, but getting better since the man power has finally arrived.

As far as aid goes well there's a lot being denied at the moment. The red cross is being keep out of the city because the army believes it's better for people to "get out" of the city all tougther witch is a half decent idea only some people don't have that ability lmao with out trudging through water that quite honestly WILL KILL YOU if you have even a scratch. Plenty still trapped and that so a lot more people are going to die because there's nothing (or little) to eat or drink, at least in the city.

Bush was terribly slow in reacting. 3 days before he even addressed the people (he was still on vacation 2 days after it) and it's been basicly a week since the disaster and man power and aid is only just getting into the city. No excuses that's freaking slack as hell. Of course there's no way in hell bush will take the blame, as we are already seeing it's being put "else where" still the people aren't fooled every one knows it's a piss poor to little to late effort that has defiantly cost lives..... but then he really doesn't give a dam about anything unless it effects him directly.

Pretty sad affair all in all & the media coverage is really starting to give me the urge to shove a crowbar up some reporters ass's, some of it is just so sickening.

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Post by Charvell » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:40 pm

I think they should just give it back to the alegators and mosquitos and build it somwhere else... Maybe "above" sea level?

I ve noticed that when people are put into desparate situations and left to themselves the results are usually the same no matter where in the world it happens. Some people just don't give a rat's ass about anything but them selves and they'll walk over anyone that gets in the way.

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Post by DesertFox82 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:04 pm

Charvell wrote:I think they should just give it back to the alligators and mosquitos and build it somewhere else... Maybe "above" sea level?
Not the first time I've heard that sentiment actually. I know a few people that are saying the same thing. Though it is well known how stubborn and proud people anywhere can be, and if anything can be said about southerners, we are a stubborn and proud people. New Orleans will be rebuilt, at great expense to all involved, and people will once again live near levees where the lake beyond is higher than their roof. It will happen. Flood insurance rates will go up, surely.

Oh, and since New Orleans itself is 287 years old (that's 58 years older then the country for those keeping score), I imagine the alligators and mosquitos have given up on the area a long time ago. :) Though I could go on for a while about the misconception that this state is overrun by alligators and mosquitos...

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Post by Charvell » Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:14 pm

DesertFox82 wrote:Though I could go on for a while about the misconception that this state is overrun by alligators and mosquito's...
I figured as much... There's a very rich history behind the town. Maybe there's a different approach that can be looked into... The Japanese have reclaimed from the sea and possibly this technique can be adapted here. It would mean bringing in millions of tons of dirt but it would insure no more disasters like this... or possibly the Greek solution... build everything on stilts and leave the water alone. What will probably happen is the levy will be reinforced and added to along with other measures taken to insure this will never happen again but I think this would be a mistake though.

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Post by Charvell » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:51 pm

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State

by Robert Tracinski

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

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Post by RLK86 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:51 pm

Stereotypical poor people are such a problem. I can just imagine the writer backspacing a paragraph at the end that suggests that if they had all died on the streets a while back, we wouldn't have any problems today.


I can think of many slightly more humanised and much more realistic causes for their behaviour, like, say, I don't know... a whole city being sunk. I'm sure it's only slightly traumatic and leaves a hint of despair.


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