K has to be asked...whos with me wanting a Honorverse mod?

Moderators: Meurig, Spooky, Crook, Thursday

Manticore
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Landing, Jason Bay, The Star Kingdom of Manticore

Post by Manticore » Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:12 pm

Oh God...I just imagined the graphical slowdown of a fleet's worth of missile pods...

Gah...(think upwards of 10,000 from a decent-sized fleet at once...I think we're gonna have to tone that down a bit)

Light Soldier
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Kulju , Finland

Post by Light Soldier » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:03 am

I think that the missile salvoe's need to be toned down quite a bit. Even 1,000 missiles would either kill your machine or crash the game and i think that 40 to 100 are pretty much the maximum you can have.

User avatar
TheOneNamedViper
Posts: 6859
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by TheOneNamedViper » Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:19 am

I doubt if the max is so low for missiles. Imagine that in unmodded HW2, you have a fleet of 20 torpedo frigates, all firing un-upgraded torps at a MS or such. Now, each one fires, say two missiles. That's 40 missiles on screen right there. And now, each of them splits into 4 mini missiles before hitting the target. That's a grand total of 160 missiles on screen at one time. And that's not even counting what your Vaygr opponent, who's main cap-ship weapon is missiles btw, might be throwing back at you at the same time. I've seen this scenario without any kind of slowdown on my comp, so if there is a limit as such, it'd probably be just a tad higher, I'd say at least around the number 500

Manticore
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Landing, Jason Bay, The Star Kingdom of Manticore

Post by Manticore » Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:58 am

But you have to admit, that's nowhere NEAR the 10-20,000 missiles that Manticore and later Haven were throwing around in their initial salvoes during the war.

What bothers me about this is that they typically whittled away 50% or more of these salvos (usually more)...which means that at least against capital ships (DNs and SDs) missile combat is largely useless. I mean, it already was ( ;) ) but it should have been more useless than depicted.

Light Soldier
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Kulju , Finland

Post by Light Soldier » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:59 am

TONV: Yeah but considering that in Honor Harrington the biggest fleet battles can include beginning missile salvoes of several thousand missiles from a moderate sized strike force or a fleet, the missile numbers still need to be toned down. And also, a standard Superdreadnaught in Honorverse has 110 missile tubes of which 45 are on either broadside. If you have 6 of those firing full broadsides at an enemy of the same size, you'll have 540 missiles in space on every exchange and that doesnt yet even account for the fact that missile recycle time is around 15 seconds so the first salvo hasnt possibly (in the mod) yet even hit when the next on is in space.

But regardless, yeah i think you're right about the max number of missiles. If it is around 500 then that would help.

Manticore: The initial salvoes werent quite that high. Atleast not for White Haven's 8th Fleet when they attacked Barnett and not for the Havenite fleet that Harrington fought against in War Of Honor. They were often in the multiple thousands but IIRC over 10,000 missiles in a salvo was very rare because there would need to be an insane number of ships to provide enough telemetry links for all the missiles.

50%? Try more like 80% depending on the screening elements the enemy had and how large the salvoes were. This made missile engagement between ships without pods very time consuming because the enemy could shoot down most of your missiles. When the pods came it became possible to simply fire so goddamn lot of the missiles that even if the enemy stopped 95% of the incoming birds, enough would still get thru to either destroy the enemy or deal damage.

Edge_28
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Gainesville Fl
Contact:

Post by Edge_28 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:31 pm

Well, I got bored so I put this together real fast. Absolutely nothing special about it. I didnt go into detail at all. So the impeller rings and any of the weps hardpoints are left out.

Nobody is going to claim that these ships are very pretty to look at. To me, the appeal in a MOD of this sort would be in the tactics and splendor of the fleet ops that might be possible. Not to mention that theres beauty in simplicity sometimes. And these fleets would def have that Image

Anyways Heres a quicky model of an honorverse SD. In some pics i have seen of these things they are slightly squarish instead of round. I just did it this way cuz it was as simple as anything else. Even in its rounded state its only 476 triangles. There wouldnt be THAT much detail work to be done to put the count up much either.

Peoples worries about missile counts I think can be helped a bit by considering the relatively low poly count of ships that might be used in a mod of this sort. And, missiles really dont need many polys themselves. Anyone whos tried that debri mod over on relic forums should have a rough idea just how much their system can handle without laggin ya out of the game. Mine was quite a bunch and that was before a few upgrades.

Anyways,

Image

Image

Image

[ 06. January 2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Edge_28 ]
Image

Manticore
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Landing, Jason Bay, The Star Kingdom of Manticore

Post by Manticore » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:50 pm

I guess then that I should get off my butt and model one. ;)

Hmm...with that low a poly-count for the main body, we could really make some great goblins for these guys, like detailed weapons ports etc.

Light Soldier
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Kulju , Finland

Post by Light Soldier » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:16 pm

It looks good Edge, the cones at the ends could be a tiny bit longer but otherwise i see nothing wrong in it. Now just add gravitic arrays, phased radar arrays, LIDAR arrays, weapons ports, impeller rings, boat bays and the stuff :D In the end when all that is added i think that the surface doesnt look quite so "empty" so to speak.

I just figured that this would be a damn fast mod to make, model wise anyways. This one base model could be used for all of the warships except the LAC's and LAC carriers ofcourse. Since even a destroyer is basically the same looking as a standard SD outside size and the surface stuff on the hull.

EDIT: One thing came to my mind, since the ends of the warships in Honorverse are allways described as "hammerheads" shouldnt it be a little flatter vertically? Here is an image from some other dude's model of a Battlecruiser IIRC.

http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/ ... _bc_05.jpg

http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/ ... pha_08.jpg

[ 06. January 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Light Soldier ]

Edge_28
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Gainesville Fl
Contact:

Post by Edge_28 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:49 pm

I thought along the lines of that model as well up until i read which ever novel it was that had those size charts. Something about the way they were drawn led me toss out the "dumb bell" descriptions mentioned so often before.

When I started reading the series my mental images were of ships shaped almost like giant capital I's. Both hammerhead and dumb bell are used to describe the ships. The hammerhead references made me think of it as only extending laterally while the dumb bell made me think all around. The pictures on the size chart made me feel 'better' about the way they look anyway.

I do think that a bit of artistic license can be taken in making the ships too. To me a BC will be sleeker. Simple enough. Ill just shift the weight of the ship a bit towards the back. My lil model is most definitely not something to live by. I was just playing around and it came out very well. All that thing is is one disc stretched out over and over using the bevel command. Just moving a few of the points between bevels can change the shape quite a bit without altering the overall idea.


EDIT
you are right BTW. even in the chart compairng an SDP to a SD It should be flattened off on the tops of the hammerheads. No prob there to fix. Prob wont atm though.
edge

[ 06. January 2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Edge_28 ]

Light Soldier
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Kulju , Finland

Post by Light Soldier » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:23 pm

Ah ok. Both of the end styles look good tough so it doesnt matter THAT much.

Locked

Return to “Homeworld 2”