Come on then; tell me HW2 was a good game!

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Durandel
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Post by Durandel » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:25 am

CP:

Pure hope. That's why I said "I bloody hope so". Don't forget that I'm a HW fan too; I don't want to see the universe die, so I have to have hope for the future. Nexus interviews have been upbeat about modding and at the moment I'd like to think they're telling the truth. Since there are no other Spaceship RTS games in development (that I know of) this may be the last chance for HW fans.

Also remember that it's just HW2 I don't like; I think some of the mod work done so far (Requiem Wars, etc) looks fantastic, and I'd love to see them released in a thriving, active community where they'll get the play they deserve.

Tomatowen:

Good for you! Why should you care who I am? You shouldn't and you don't! You're quite right about my attitude; I was out of order. To be honest I was looking for a fight last night. Sorry about that.

As for your points, I am completely familiar with the Relic Forums inc the Tanis Shipyards & sub forums. That's why I mentioned my modding credentials; I've been involved in the modding community for almost two years. I know a lot more about HW2 modding than you do, and it's really not a practical proposition. You'd need to look more closely at the situation in order to understand what I mean - simply telling you the facts will not convince you. I too expect Warlords to be one of the completed mods, along with a couple of others.

However it's all irrelevant now. The truth is that HW2 is a dead game. The community has collapsed. The number of online players is pitiful. The "Homeworld Ladder" stopped being active months ago. The "Homeworld Universe" fan site now calls itself "Relic Universe" and focuses on DoW. The Clan Forums have also abandoned HW2 in favour of DoW. The Relic Forums no longer have a HW design; they're focusing on DoW too. Relic themselves no longer even pretend to support the community (they actually belong to a competitor now) and Sierra has ceased to exist as anything more than a brand name. After six months the HW2 1.1 patch has not even been released to all regions (and may never be). You can even look at this Homeworld 2 forum for an example; this is the first active thread for over a month.

Meurig:

Fair enough mate, you look into it. You're going to be very dissapointed. However, as I've said to CP, I have hopes that Nexus will provide a new lease of life for the HW fanse. Let's face it, most of the people who bought HW games will also buy Nexus.

[ 30. June 2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Durandel ]

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:29 pm

This forum was never going to be a focus of HW2 modding - that would be relicforums. The game is difficult, sure, but not impossible. It's slowly becoming clear what can be done with the game and how. It's not so tough.

The holy trinity of SF mods have now appeared (SW, ST and B5). All look to be shaping up well. It was a whole year before we saw anything with HW1 - which was 90% fan made tools remember.

I suppose some people want modding to be given away - it would suit most I'd guess. I liked HW1 modding because most said it couldn't be done. HW2 seems to be a true sequal.

Tomatowen
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Post by Tomatowen » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 pm

Well Durandel, I'm sorry for what I posted earlier, as a good bit of it was out of line. I appologize, and I thank you for not escalating the fight. I was rather upset when I made that last post, but that certainly didnt call for some of the things I said. Anyway, I hope you are willing (as I am) to forgive, forget, and move on.

Admittedly, I have virtually no Homeworld modding experience, so you are correct in saying that my feelings would be different if I tried some HW modding myself. I'm sure I would probably have a different attitude on things.
Maybe there aren't "lots" of people who are very active with HW2, but there are enough who are willing to try things. Personally I think its great that they are, and I'm looking forward to playing mods like Warlords and B5:GW and whatever else may be created.

But you are, without question, more experienced and more knowledgeable in this field than I am, and you are 100% entitled to your own opinion. And I respect it.

Sincerely,
Tomatowen [img]smile.gif[/img]

Durandel
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Post by Durandel » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:10 pm

Tomatowen, there's absolutely no problem here. Nothing to forgive, easy to forget. I asked for it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Crook, good luck, but I fear it'll be a long road with not very much at then end of it. I know you're up to the challenge, but would you not rather mod a more popular game that has proper tools? Is overcoming technical probelms really more rewarding than the end result? Wouldn't it be more satifying to see your work being widely played by an enthusiastic community?

Col_Spankov
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Post by Col_Spankov » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:25 pm

Originally posted by Durandel:
Crook, good luck, but I fear it'll be a long road with not very much at then end of it. I know you're up to the challenge, but would you not rather mod a more popular game that has proper tools? Is overcoming technical probelms really more rewarding than the end result? Wouldn't it be more satifying to see your work being widely played by an enthusiastic community?
Well, Crook has at least one anxious fan awaiting his new mod [img]smile.gif[/img]

I too found HW2 to be rather disappointing, which is why I can’t wait to see how the modding community will fix it ^_^

Swifty
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Post by Swifty » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:50 pm

Homeworld 2 was by far a shite game in comparsion to the preveious two, not only did it feel dumbed down to suit a wider audience it also dropped many of the key important features that made HW1 great, like the almost invisble GUI and the gripping storey. Hw2 also lacks big time in the video dept in terms of support and optimazation, and yes before says yeah thats how it works, getting 12 FPS on a Radeon 9800XT is nothing todo with Hw2 being sponosered by Nvidia, thats just crap coding.

Modding wise D is right, I looked into as soon as HW2 came out, I kept my hopes up for about 3 months trying desperatly hard. Relic in all its arrogance practically killed the comminuty with forcing people to use Maya, and an older version of Maya if that. Maybe one day they will be plugins and lots of user made tools but I think alot of people will be long gone or seeking something else. Hw2 is the victem of most what most games are, dumbed down, simple story filled with big explosions and some pretty graphics and hey look we have a blockbuster. Warcraft 3 started the trend it it still continues, most recently Ground Control 2.

Anywho I personally look forward to an space based RTS mod Half-Life 2, (aka Source)

Edge_28
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Post by Edge_28 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:31 pm

I found HW2 abbreviated not really disappointing. It just seemed to easy to bowl through. Left with a serious feeling of "that's it????"

The whole modding thing. It seems like pure idiocy for a developer to hamstring a game comunity the way they did. I didnt even buy the original HW til 2 years after it had come out. This one? course i bought it first day. I KNEW how good modders were for HW1...i could only envision better things for HW2. ............oops

I stll have hope that some revelation will come about with modding...some tools that make life easier. Whether that will happen ...dunno.

So much potential is there if you ask me. Just a pity its so hard for the serious hardcore modders to get at. I think part of that might have come with how simple it ended up being for peple...even casual modders like myself...to mod HW1. From what i understand...that wasnt always so.

With HW2 its not easy. Everyone feels lied to. I'll keep on looking though. With my fingers crossed.

Edge
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Crook
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Post by Crook » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:42 pm

Originally posted by Durandel:
Crook, good luck, but I fear it'll be a long road with not very much at then end of it. I know you're up to the challenge, but would you not rather mod a more popular game that has proper tools? Is overcoming technical probelms really more rewarding than the end result? Wouldn't it be more satifying to see your work being widely played by an enthusiastic community?
I've never been THAT bothered by the end result - we're not making counter-strike here. The fan base is pretty specific. It's more the work I do that gives me the interest. As to tools, I like making them personally, but have found it too time consuming for HW2. The font editor is enough for now [img]smile.gif[/img]

But on to other games - I think games are rapidly becoming difficult to mod. With the increase in model quality and game scope, modding will not be possible by the average user, but only by someone who can find a team with a physicist, animator, modeler etc or a high standard - and these should be making original games anyway.

Saying that, I'm not sticking to HW2 exclusively, I only do that because it's the best vehicle for B5 I've seen thus far - is there anything better than HW2 for it? I'll be diving into HL2 modding when that appears as well.

If you don't worry about the end product, the work itself becomes enjoyable [img]smile.gif[/img]

Relic didn't lie exactly, rather they had to do a rush job of finishing HW2 (making it even!), and that locked a lot of potential away unfortunately. I'd rather they did that than not make it at all, which was a distinct possbility for a long time.

Swifty - you should'nt be getting those frame rates. I've only got a 9800se, and it's fine for me at high resolutions. The XT is even more powerful than mine. I'd check that one if I were you, and I'd be suprised if it's just HW2 it does it with.

Swifty
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Post by Swifty » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:35 pm

Aye crook i did, its actually my mate who has the XT (Herc as well) and I have same as you, Herc 9800Se .... Tried every driver under the sun still no luck, I complained in the relic forums and to relic but hey no luck.

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:00 am

Wierd. Makes me think it's something obvious, like it's outputting 2 signals but you're using only 1. I have to switch off my second monitor to play HW2 - the system can't cope otherwise. That or an AGP setting, or something at least that isn't directly the gfx card or it's driver, but something related.

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