Something a littel fishy here?

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:48 pm

It's hardly the US/UK I'm talking about. I'm talking about any country with a developed sense of freedom and technology. You didn't say whether you disagreed with the point or not though. Do you think someone has the right to deny you the use of ideas?

I'm not sure I get the reference to Texas, but I don't think I'm likely to....

Sheriden
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Post by Sheriden » Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:18 am

i just read the closed topic on DGs board, and ive come to conclude that both sides WAY over-reacted, yeah jason sounded like a jerk (sorry man, its true), and yeah DG(and party) used his stuff without permission, and yeah if i made a model and someone used it without permission, id be ticked, but id talk it over with him/her (which from what i understand, actually happened), so the entire arguement was mute after DG and company started talking with the S:AAB HW team... so my 2 cents are: next time, ask permission, or at least do not release/post pics of use of other peoples work, if ur gonna use it in a mod, get permission... and dont be a jerk.

an0n
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Post by an0n » Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:42 am

Originally posted by Crook:
It's hardly the US/UK I'm talking about. I'm talking about any country with a developed sense of freedom and technology. You didn't say whether you disagreed with the point or not though. Do you think someone has the right to deny you the use of ideas?
No. But I tend to give people more credit than they deserve and I'm something of a mental socialist. It's when they start claiming it as their own idea that it becomes wrong.


And on a more 'DG' note: While I'm against just blatantly stealing stuff (except in a few specific cases), I am certain DG woulda included credits. But, as you can see from his site, he's not one for doing things the best way.
I'm not sure I get the reference to Texas, but I don't think I'm likely to....
Some rich old dude got off with butchering his neighbour to death and dismembering his body purely because he was the only witness. Score 1 for US law :rolleyes: .

Sheriden
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Post by Sheriden » Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:05 am

Originally posted by an0n:
Some rich old dude got off with butchering his neighbour to death and dismembering his body purely because he was the only witness. Score 1 for US law :rolleyes: .
hehe thats because of "Innocent until proven guilty".

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:16 pm

lol @ us law. It's got a bad rep over the pond, but then again ours messes up royally from time to time....

I'm still worried by phrases like 'he would have included credits', implying that it's ok to use digital material as long as credit is given, without the consent of the original artist. This I disagree strongly with, but it may be just the way you typed it and not be the underlying meaning...

an0n
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Post by an0n » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:14 pm

implying that it's ok to use digital material as long as credit is given
It is. It's editting that's the grey area. And wether DG converting it is 'editting' as such, is somewhat unclear.

Anyway, you guys model this stuff for three reasons, so people can play with them, to introduce people to the SAAB universe and so people can see how good your '1337 sk1llz' are. With DG converting them for FS, people can play with them, which in turn exposes people to SAAB. And by including credits, you get extra recognition for your skills without any extra effort on your part.

I honestly don't see why you were all so riled up about it. It's not like he was butchering the models and reflecting badly on you peeps or this mod.
but then again ours messes up royally from time to time....
The entire judicial system (and the governmental one for that matter) is a steaming pile of crap. When people are stealing £3million settlements from the goddamn NHS because they choked on their own sick after popping too many ecstacy tablets, that's when you need to sit down and take a long hard look at wether things are really in an acceptable state.

Merc
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Post by Merc » Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:29 pm

An0n,

He didn't have any credits and he changed the models textures a bit. You can say that he would have put the the credits on that page (I believe now that he would too), but the fact is that there were none when we came across it. We had no idea who he was at all. It LOOKED like he was taking credit for it when it was in his screenshots section next to models he did do. So naturally we wanted to know the real deal. Unfortunately from there things kinda got blown up...

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Post by Jason8472 » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:11 am

The more I think about it, the more I want to see SAAB in other mods. Especially our material, since it is so choice in quality. Anon has a great point.

an0n
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Post by an0n » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:14 pm

Originally posted by Merc:
An0n,

He didn't have any credits and he changed the models textures a bit. You can say that he would have put the the credits on that page (I believe now that he would too), but the fact is that there were none when we came across it. We had no idea who he was at all. It LOOKED like he was taking credit for it when it was in his screenshots section next to models he did do. So naturally we wanted to know the real deal. Unfortunately from there things kinda got blown up...
Hmmm. Never thought of that.

Damn my inability to comprehend things in the context of a specific sequence of events.

Ah, well. Everything's good now.

[ 26. November 2003, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: an0n ]

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:19 pm

Originally posted by an0n:
It is.
Ahh well, there we differ in the strongest possible way. It isn't. Credit or no, permission from the original artist should come first. An entirely new clone of a model is fine, but a direct conversion, even with editing, requires permission.

Otherwise credit simply becomes 'where I stole it from'

Without that permission it becomes a free-for-all, which is not the intent of the internet. But with so much piracy around, who's going to fully protect digital artists? I for one am on their side, and what they say goes.

And most modelers will give permission if it's asked for and the project is worthy. It helps everyone out. BUT if they say no, their wishes should be respected. Maybe they want to keep their work for a personal portfolio. Spread across the net it could damage someones chances of a job, or freelance work etc etc. We have to give them the right to say 'no'.

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