Something a littel fishy here?

Moderators: Jason8472, Casious

Merc
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA
Contact:

Post by Merc » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:54 pm

No real rights? Sure....but how about the RIGHT thing to do? I have'nt heard one of your "lot" talk about that at all. Why do they feel it's available to take and do with as they please? They didn't make it.

Perhaps some of your mates' thinking should evolve from "take" to "MAKE". Much more rewarding rather than having a mod that only goes as far as we go.

I think this whole situation should be let go now. It's really over.

[ 19. November 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Merc ]

User avatar
Crook
Posts: 3900
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2000 1:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Contact:

Post by Crook » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:46 am

Originally posted by Coyote:
Crook: I am fully aware of intellectual copyright laws and how they pertain here. But even assuming you were willing to attempt to drag this into court (heh, I can see that case), you have no real rights here. It was not copyrighted in advance, neither party is profiting from the resource, there is no organized group on the other end of the line, and you all left it open for anyone who wanted it to take and provided no EULA or anything of the sort; you have no case. Yeah, it's a nice word to throw around, but in the end it's like threatening to get your imaginary big brother to beat him up. Bad form, old chap, especially since the rest of your posts are far and away more reasoned than the rest of what I've seen by you lot.
Glad to see you see me as reasonable, but you are way wrong on many of the above points I'm afraid. It's not the idea of pulling it into the courts (which would be stupid all round of course) but the principle and law of intellectual copyright. To take your points:


It need not be copyrighted in advance

It is not based on profitable use

It's based on individual use, not any recognised group(s)

It's not about availability of the material

No EULA need be given


The rights and law of intellectual copyright as it relates to digital material supports the original artist. As long as some relevant and robust proof of initial creation can be provided, nothing else matters. The basic design need not be original either. I can do a lovely mesh clone of NCC1701-D, and it's mine, solely and completely. Sure, I can't use it for profit due to imagery and intellectual copyright from Viacom, but they can't download my mesh and use it as they like either. It would be mine, utterly.

I can change or even simply add an EULA at any time to amend any omissions in the first place, and they take effect from that day forward, governing all who HAVE downloaded it in the past as long as reasonable effort is made to contact all those who might use it.

But all this is somewhat irrelevant as through the courts is not the way this would go, but the 'spirit' is on the side of the creators, and other artists should respect that utterly, without question. Even (and especially) when they disagree...


The law around IC is very clear, and soooooo often mistaken by modelers that it's not funny anymore. You've got to be v v v careful too about taking a legal standpoint. Let's say the creators of S:AAB wanted you shut down. Some people say

'But we don't make any profit. You CAN'T shut us down!'

Makes no difference. As mods we could ALL be shut down if we get 'noticed'.


Edit: Lol, I suppose I could have just repeated what Merc said. It's the same thing [img]smile.gif[/img]

and p.s. - if you're having trouble modeling/texturing, why not ask for help in that area?

[ 20. November 2003, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Crook ]

Sheriden
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Sheriden » Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:03 am

I'm gonna have to say that the current argument at hand should be dropped, as I take it, DG(i think thats the guy), as appologized, and Merc(or whoever the model contends to) as already delt with it, so it needs not be argued anymore, but i would like to add that DG and the rest of his modding community should co-operate more deeply with the TGU modders and other such groups, and respect one anothers work and ask permission from now on. And yes i understand that he did this by mistake (yes he intentionally used other peoples works, but from what i hear his community is one where its open sharing amoung all), and he is very sorry for this, but he should ask for help, and understand that if he is not good enough to produce material of that quality, he should work with the designers of it and learn how... all said and done neither side should be shouting at each other, for the most part i agree with cook and merc, but i see where coyote and others are coming from. The legal standpoint here is all about respect, not about in the courts, because if it came down to it, all mods would be closed unless they had explicit permission from the developers of the game AND what the mod is based in(excluding fan-made, original content)... *sigh* that was a lot of writing

anyways i hope u all get along from now on!

User avatar
Jason8472
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 12:00 pm
Location: Fluidic Space and Auburn, Pa.
Contact:

Post by Jason8472 » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:26 am

They just dont like me cuz Im good looking ;)

Anyways, Sheridan, obviously you didnt read the thread at their forum. That would tell you where things stood on their end, even though the only one that really had an opinion that counted was DG.

Im fine with the way DG handled it all after everything was said and done.

In a strange sense, they do have a point. Nothing sharp, mind you, but seeing SAAB in other mods would be pretty cool. Especially since there really isnt another game out there that is even SAAB related. The only way our policy could be changed is all the team's members agreed on it.

Oh, and Coyote, please refrain from posting in the SAAB Homeworld forum. You are not welcome here. And I dont have to talk that over with anyone here.

an0n
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Klendathu
Contact:

Post by an0n » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:51 am

Originally posted by Crook:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by an0n:
You do, of course, realise the irony?
I would, if there were any. Try to distinguish between artist and fool maybe?</font>[/QUOTE]No, I was highlighting the fact that copying the universe, storyline and ships from a TV show was basically theft of an entire universe.

When you get Glen Morgan and James Wong's permission to use their ideas, then I'll concede that DG was wrong.

Merc
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA
Contact:

Post by Merc » Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:39 am

So I guess DG got their permission then? :rolleyes:

[ 20. November 2003, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Merc ]

User avatar
Crook
Posts: 3900
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2000 1:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Contact:

Post by Crook » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:38 pm

Originally posted by an0n:
When you get Glen Morgan and James Wong's permission to use their ideas, then I'll concede that DG was wrong.
Use of an idea requires no permission, of course, as stated in many constitutions and in the legal foundations of most countries. That's only for fascist countries which I trust we don't all reside in. So given that fact I'm sure you'll concede that DG was wrong, yes? [img]smile.gif[/img]

(not to rag on DG here - by all accounts he has tried to settle the situation amicably)

[ 20. November 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Crook ]

Sheriden
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Sheriden » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:22 pm

Originally posted by Jason8472:

Anyways, Sheridan, obviously you didnt read the thread at their forum. That would tell you where things stood on their end, even though the only one that really had an opinion that counted was DG.
true, i did go over to the webside and take a look around, but the only forums i came across didnt have anything about it (must have been deleted), ahh well, i think all parties learned their lessons

User avatar
Jason8472
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 12:00 pm
Location: Fluidic Space and Auburn, Pa.
Contact:

Post by Jason8472 » Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:17 am


an0n
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Klendathu
Contact:

Post by an0n » Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:43 am

Originally posted by Crook:
Use of an idea requires no permission, of course, as stated in many constitutions and in the legal foundations of most countries. That's only for fascist countries which I trust we don't all reside in. So given that fact I'm sure you'll concede that DG was wrong, yes? [img]smile.gif[/img]
Just because it's right under American/UK law doesn't make it right, as just about everyone in Texas will know right now.
Originally posted by Merc:
So I guess DG got their permission then?
No, but did.....nevermind, I'm not gonna get into a circular argument.

Post Reply

Return to “SAAB Homeworld Mod”