IaW Federation Dreadnought gets a makeover

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Pierce 2: The Sequel
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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:35 pm

Originally posted by TheStressPuppy:
No one said the Federation Class's HAD to have a reg in the NCC 2100's
Franz Joseph did. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
it is very possible that theres a dreaddy in the 19 18 17 or below if we use the lot number theory. I dont buy that the 1700's were all constitution class's anymore otherwise there wouldnt be a 1017, or a 9something, or a 1364, and a few in the 1600 range. in that respect they really screwed up if they want us to belive that 1700 was the class ship.
Remember, that was all done in the 80's, based on Greg Jein's interpretation of that damn wall chart from "Court Martial." The people who espouse the Encyclopedia list of registries have yet to answer me on any of the occasions I've asked this question: in a Starfleet where there are only "12 ships like" the Enterprise, how the hell are they ALL AT THE SAME FREAKING STARBASE AT THE SAME FREAKING TIME?!? I just got the old Franz Joseph blueprints off of eBay along with my "new" old copy of the Tech Manual, and according to him Roddenberry signed off on the blueprints (which include the same list of names and registries he later put in the Tech Manual), so as far as I'm concerned that's just as damn "canon" as Greg Jein's list.

As Manticore said, the only Constitution with a canon registry lower than 1700 is Constellation, although 1371 for Republic is fairly generally accepted, even prior to Jein's list. (The Eagle, NCC-956, is a ship that exists on a chart in IIRC Trek VI, but there's nothing that I'm aware to suggest that it has to be a Connie--it could just as easily be the "Phase 2" destroyer Stress made for BTFF...) I don't have a problem with these--as Manticore also pointed out, Constellation has some differences from Enterprise (due to AMT needing to save plastic to keep the model kit's production cost down ;) ), so we can easily speculate that she was originally built as a different class of starship and then refitted to something close to Constitution-class specs later on. The same thing could have happened to Republic, since we've never seen her--she could be identical to Constellation, or have subtle differences of her own.

Hell, even the recent appearance of the Defiant on ENT doesn't invalidate FJ's list, as Defiant isn't even on it! :D It could be a later build or just an omission...
Im all but totally convinced the reg number is a construction lot number like modern naval vessels are (example: Kitty hawk cv-63, Constellation cv-64, Enterprise: different class cvn-65, john kennedy: different class cv-66 Nimitz: different class cvn-68 etc etc).
Yeah, but even in this system, they didn't make CVN-68 Nimitz (Nimitz-class), CVN-69 Eisenhower (Nimitz-class), and then go wild with making Carl Vinson (CVN-70) a completely different class, and then making Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) a Nimitz again. Even more to the point, they're not making CVN-70 an Aegis cruiser or Perry frigate, which seems to be the level of chaos inherent in the TNG era and beyond... ;)

I'm of two minds about the Federation registries--on the one hand, if you're going to use the ship, it seems that you should use the registries the creator made up for them; but on the other hand, FJ's registries are so screwed up, I've thought of completely redoing them thusly:

Federation: NCC-1100 (with at least an original nacelle different from anything ever fitted to a Connie)
Saladin/Hermes: NCC-1500
Ptolemy: NCC-800 (again, with at least the nacelles different from the Connie ones they'll eventually be refitted with. The saucer could even be related to that of whatever the Constellation's original one looks like)

Obviously, this is a major starship design project, probably bigger than even Stress wants to take on. :D
Pointless debate time :D
But you know how much I love pointless debate... [img]graemlins/eviltail.gif[/img]

[ 30. April 2005, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Pierce 2: The Sequel ]

TheStressPuppy
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Post by TheStressPuppy » Sun May 01, 2005 10:02 am

Why in the smegging hell do u think im putting 1st pilot nacelles, impulse's and markings on her? (uss federation ncc-1100) The Ptolomy, and Saladin can go the same route also, along with the AMT bridge moduale. i dont buy the 1500's for the saladins, but the way the reg's are all screwed up in trek i guess anything is possible.

Im not gonna alter the way im building this ship cause of registry inconsistancies. I have a set plan and its gonna be done that way :D

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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Sun May 01, 2005 1:21 pm

Didn't realize you were using the NCC-1100 suggestion. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The reason we went with 1500 ("we" being CJ and myself) for the Saladins in our scheme was to make them seem very much like sister ships to the Constitutions. We figured the Saladins were built right alongside the Constitutions, using the same components from day one. 1100 for the Federations was based on the class perhaps coming out of the Klingon conflict of around 2218 that's alluded to in TOS. 800 for the Ptolemy's was what I considered the biggest reach, but the way we figured it, the Federation is going to need a lot of transports to haul stuff around, so it made sense that they could be the earliest of all the FJ ships.

Someday, CJ and I will have to sit down and lay out our version of pre-TOS starship history in a little more detail...

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Post by Manticore » Sun May 01, 2005 8:23 pm

If the Saladin's are 1500, what's 1600? Not Miranda, those are 1800. The Suryas?
Lord Vorkosigan <i>does not</i> always get what he wants!

Let's be about it.

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Pierce 2: The Sequel
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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Sun May 01, 2005 11:35 pm

Hadn't gotten quite that far yet... might be Suryas, might be Kearsarges... might be something else entirely... [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Post by TheStressPuppy » Mon May 02, 2005 3:58 am

The 1500/1600's would more than likely go to the Kersarge class's (the SFB "New Light Cruiser")they seem to fit into that scheme of things.

If the Saladin was built along side the Connies, and has reggies in the 1500's it would make sense to have it have a connie saucer, and its 3rd season nacelle to show the fact they were built from the same components. While they use those components i can also do like Lord sctupp did with his, and make a bunch of different varients ranging from scouts to "torpedo ships". Question should she have an add on hanger bay, or drop down bays like on the NX?

The ptolomy we have lots of room to play with i can go total old style with that ship too.

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Pierce 2: The Sequel
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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Mon May 02, 2005 12:04 pm

Well, the other thing to consider is that there probably aren't 100 of any single ship (excepting the Ptolemy) in the TOS era. [img]smile.gif[/img] You could put 2 or 3 classes worth of registries between 1600 and 1700... ;)

I think Schtupp's Saladin shuttlebay is the ultimate. [img]smile.gif[/img] Of course, that's already been done, and you probably want to do something different. I don't like "drop-down" bays at all; if you wanted something to put something on that didn't change the silhouette, I'd suggest something on the top of the saucer, so that there'd still be a "landing deck."

[ 02. May 2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Pierce 2: The Sequel ]

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Post by TheStressPuppy » Tue May 03, 2005 9:09 am

Not "pointless debate" I got a little bit more work done on her. I removed the nacelle balls at the ends, added the spikes, and did some detailing.
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Pierce 2: The Sequel
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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Wed May 04, 2005 1:20 am

Looking damn nice there, dude...

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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:05 pm

Just in case anybody still comes here, here's some updates that Stress has posted elsewhere:

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