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Calavan
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Post by Calavan » Wed May 19, 2004 6:06 pm

i wasn't saying that new players couldn't make a name for themselves, i was saying that the time when we were all making that name was the best part, and its a part that we (vets) can not go back to.

Darth1o9
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Post by Darth1o9 » Wed May 19, 2004 6:12 pm

it was till i started getting gang banged by npc's. So no one would be willing to lose so diplomacy freedom in order to avoid bangs, you ask why, yet again we are more trying for a star wars/ combat sim, not a creating of the real world using ships in hw that look like something in a film i see the problem that some people are not even willing to try the idea, but what ahs anyone got to lose by actually trying something different, will it really keep you awake, will it ruin your live. Before this is turned about, we did the 2 factions in c1 of evr, we have never evert tried to do something that actualy builds the factions character. I dont know why yay dont seem to wanna do it, i mean you write long enough posts, you could apply that abiltie to something else, like a bio, i really dont want to do 2 superfactions this campaign as i feel it reduces player freedom to much, atleast with a few factions more people get the chance to be the boss and who here really likes taking orders?

Turgidson
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Post by Turgidson » Wed May 19, 2004 7:07 pm

Calavan wrote

i wasn't saying that new players couldn't make a name for themselves, i was saying that the time when we were all making that name was the best part, and its a part that we (vets) can not go back to.
Yes, OK. It's a "problem" for us vets, but it might not be a problem for newcomers. Anyway, you can always try to join under a new name, if you really want to. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Felth wrote

So no one would be willing to lose so diplomacy freedom in order to avoid bangs, you ask why, yet again we are more trying for a star wars/ combat sim, not a creating of the real world using ships in hw that look like something in a film
The problem is, as I've already written it a lot of times, that SW doesn't make a good universe for strategy. It makes a good universe for RPGs and for storytelling, as it is heroic fantasy at its core. However, heroic-fantasy, by its randomness, contradicts the realism that comes from strategy.

BTW, the SWEU didn't include that many "factions", in such a setting.
What you propose might not be closer to SW than what others propose (with their 2 superfactions and few indies, or even with their bunch of medium factions). Tell me where GI, GO and the likes exist in the SWEU (especially GO's background). [img]tongue.gif[/img]

For me, it's not "SW combat sim" against "real world with HW ships looking like in a movie", it's merely "SW RPG-esque interpretation with other factions and groups" vs "SW strat-esque interpretation".
i see the problem that some people are not even willing to try the idea, but what ahs anyone got to lose by actually trying something different, will it really keep you awake, will it ruin your live.
Some people are just preferring other ideas, and trying to defend them. If these are not taken, I guess most of us will try your ideas. For my part, I'm unsure I will, cuz I've had enough of med-sized faction management, diplomacy, and because I don't like RPG aspects. But that's purely subjective, and only concerns myself.
Before this is turned about, we did the 2 factions in c1 of evr,
Please be honest : how long did C1 last, how big was the map, and how many people played it.

I'm sorry, but I think that a "2 superfactions, NR and GE, in a big galaxy, with small/medium indie factions" setting was NEVER tried.
we have never evert tried to do something that actualy builds the factions character. I dont know why yay dont seem to wanna do it, i mean you write long enough posts, you could apply that abiltie to something else, like a bio,
Writing a bio and debating are two completely different matters. I quite like the in-character acting as a COS (writing instructions, analysing strats, diplomacy contacts...), but I'm not good at writing stories - and I basically don't like writing them.
i really dont want to do 2 superfactions this campaign
I do. Makes 1-1 for now. Tie. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Perhaps start a vote ?
as i feel it reduces player freedom to much,
Actually, factions with fixed behaviour also reduces player freedom quite a lot.
atleast with a few factions more people get the chance to be the boss and who here really likes taking orders?
Question is : were them really "bosses" ? If you're within an alliance, you need concertation and coordination, which means you're never "fully free". If you act the way you want, without taking the others into account, your alliance won't be effective.

The other part is : there are a lot of management styles. In some factions, the "boss" gives orders, and the others have no other choice than executing these orders. In other factions, all players are equal, participate to the faction's life, and make common decisions. They're not faction "bosses", but ain't just "taking orders".

Basically, your vision of bosses and subordinates is quite restrictive IMHO. It's true you've rarely been a subordinate, and BTW it didn't work well for you as a sub as far as I remember (BF days, right ?). [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Darth1o9
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Post by Darth1o9 » Wed May 19, 2004 7:21 pm

we did a vote ages ago, this was the orginal setup before you came along, loads wanted big super afctsions, loads wanted indie, some wanted a few medium factions, this was the best as it was between the two. I said trying to create a star wars feel, now recreate the star wars universe in every detail. And stop fucking quoting every fucking sentence, arg, cant you reply like everyone else.

to your question, yes there were, i dont like the superfaction idea one bit, i do not want it at all, i thought evr was doing that if thats what yay really wanted

Calavan
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Post by Calavan » Wed May 19, 2004 7:55 pm

lol turg, i think you've missed the point of what i was talking about. of course it wouldn't be a problem for newcomers because they're going through the exact same experiance that i was talking about us wanting to go back to [img]tongue.gif[/img] . And joining as a new player won't solve the problem, as the problem lies in how you feel about the sim, not how other players view you. (its lost its novelty).

I never meant to present that as a problem with the sim merely an observation, as its got to do with human nature and personalities, not a java app

Darth1o9
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Post by Darth1o9 » Wed May 19, 2004 8:06 pm

you calavan might have a point mate ;)

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Post by slim31r » Fri May 21, 2004 2:30 am

*walks in grabs turgs quote gun, smashes it into little pieces, hands the pieces back to turg

Carry on all [img]smile.gif[/img]
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CurseUppl
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Post by CurseUppl » Fri May 21, 2004 4:15 pm

Well frankly is should be two superfactions like NR vs GI and then a few warlords running around liek Zinsj and Isard.
As said C4 was fun, just lots of indies, no allaince rules or anything. Run around and shoot anythign you see :D

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Post by Darth1o9 » Fri May 21, 2004 5:48 pm

if you ahd paid attention to the vote it was either lots of indies or 2 superfactions, why should it be GE vs NR, its been done, this hasnt, you want to repeat the same game over and over again

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Post by Swor » Sat May 22, 2004 2:14 am

Not everyone here has had the whole GE vs NR thing actually
i joined on turn 32 of C2 and the only reason that became GE vs NR vs BF was because of merging
most people here joined Mid-C2 or later so a lot haven't done an GE vs NR
i actually enjoyed C2 a lot, the large factions provides a much more interesting game than lots of little factions
Command structure becomes important
Internal Teamwork becomes important
and cooperation/decision making becomes important

these are all things that have been obliterated by "Indies"

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