Into the Light project relaunch

Discussions of various Star Trek ships and mods for Cataclysm

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Captain Pierce
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Post by Captain Pierce » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:03 am

OK, kids, it's time to get this party (re)started... :D

As I've mentioned in passing before, I've been growing more and more dissatisfied with the state of my last take on the ITL shiplist. I was trying too hard to cram too many ships in, and shoehorning them into slots that didn't suit them in the process.

So, I've done a lot of thinking of late, and I'd like to offer this part of the shiplist into evidence. I'm including my justification for putting the ships in their slots--discussion is welcomed at this point in the process. ;)

Race_Sect: Starfleet

Command ship: Bailey. I had done some concept work with a friend on a giant command ship for ITL, and it just never really gelled--it was WAY too big, for one thing. A lot of what we did, actually, was a lot like what Thomas and Howedar did on the Bailey redesign, so when I saw the WIP shots of the new Bailey, I started thinking "command ship."

Recon: Type 9 Shuttle. The Recon is a small, fast scout ship, so the Type 9 fits about as well as anything.

Acolyte: Delta Flyer. Acolyte is a tough slot to fill, due to hard-coded weapons restrictions--it needs two regular guns and two missile launchers. If you don't give it exactly these weapons, it has a tendency not to shoot at anything. The Delta Flyer seems the most logical choice, because we can pretty much give it whatever weapons we want.

Mimic: Danube. The Mimic is one of the more useless slots in the game, but it's crucial to a couple of missions, so we gotta have one. Again, the runabout works about as well as anything.

ACV: Defiant. Although I have tried leaving the Defiant out of the buildable shiplist, the simple fact is you need its firepower to get through the Borg missions. There will be a very strict unit cap on them, however...

MCV: Raven. I'm not entirely sure of this one yet; it does have a certain basis in canon, as 7of 9's folks were able to disguise the Raven from the Borg somehow.

Ramming Frigate: Hopefully, nothing. I intend to do my best to figure out how to lock this out completely. There's just nothing in Star Trek that makes sense in this slot.

MultiBeam Frigate: Sovereign. There are two reasons I put this here. One, it allows the Sovereign to maneuver; two, the "Nemesis" version of the Sovereign is one of the few ships that has wide enough weapons coverage to fit the MBF slot.

Hive Frigate: Akira. The justification for putting this here is admittedly a little slim, the idea of the ILM guy who designed it that it should be a through-deck carrier. To the best of my knowledge, nothing has ever been seen launching from the Akira to support that idea. Still, and this isn't the first or the last time I'll say this, it seems to work here. The other thing I have tossed around is putting the Akira in the Dreadnought slot, and trying to give it all 15 of the torpedo tubes it's supposed to have... ;)

Swarmer: Quantum Torpedo Shuttle. This would be new design, possibly based on Delta Flyer concept art, mounting micro-quantum torpedoes.

Leech: Nanite Torpedo. Or something else if anything better could be figured out, but this is a slot I've been kicking around for years now, and have yet to see anything better suggested.

Sentinel: Shield Augmentation Shuttle. Another new design, based on what I don't yet know, that would perform the same "shield wall" function as the stock Sentinel, and probably have a micro-photon launcher as well.

Carrier: new "medium" carrier. If you've read Thomas's backstory on the new Bailey, he postulates that the Akira and Bailey came out of the same project to build Starfleet carriers. The "medium carrier" would be an attempt to split the difference between the two--still primarily a starship rather than a "mobile starbase," but capable of at least limited construction.

Destroyer: Steamrunner. The super-capital ship slots in Cataclysm are hard to deal with, because they're ships that just sit there and fire away at range--not a very Trek-like thing to do. I put the Steamrunner here largely due to the way the ship was handled in the "Armada" games, where it was an "artillery" ship that just lobbed tri-cobalt devices at the enemy. Not exactly canon, but close enough, IMO.

Dreadnought: New "fire support" ship. On the theory that maybe experience in the "First Contact" Borg fight and the Dominion War might have revealed the Steamrunner to be an "artillery" ship that wasn't packing enough artillery. [img]smile.gif[/img] This would pack quantum torpedoes--possibly even, if I can stomach the technobabble, transphasic torpedoes--and perhaps even something along the lines of the "hot knife through butter" uber-phaser that the Enterprise-D packed in "All Good Things." I justify this based on the deflector beam weapon in "Best of Both Worlds"--if the usual phaser banks can't handle that sort of power, build a better phaser. I imagine that it would be something of a combination of phaser and deflector, actually.

Worker: Packrat. Works in SOA, why change it?

Processor: Prospector. See Packrat.

Clee-San: Nova. The Clee-San is a science ship, so duh.

Faal-Corum: Titan? The theory of a lot people in Trek modding communities is that Riker's new ship, the Titan, is a brand-new type of ship, not yet seen. Just thought it might be fun, if somebody had a good idea of what it might look like, to drop it in here.

"Taiidan" Transports: Norway w/transport pod. Odd, I know, but I just could never figure out why the Norway had those two long protrusions holding the nacelles, with that space in between. One day, it hit me--it's a trailer hitch. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Race_Kushan: Klingon Empire/Federation

Interceptor: Sabre. There really aren't enough canon Klingon ships to fill out the Kushan shiplist, so we can work some of the "leftover" Federation ships in.

Defender: SDS. Another straight SoA port.

Attack Bomber: B'Rel. Pretty close to a straight port, works about the same here as it does as SOA's cloaked fighter--minus the cloaking, of course.

Heavy Corvette: K'vort. This one's still a little iffy, not sure if the maneuverability is quite right.

Multi-Gun Corvette: Intrepid. Haven't tried this one out yet, but I think it should work pretty well.

Support Frigate: I'm leaving this open for now just in case I forgot something. ;) Also, one option would be to bump the Nebula down to here and put the Negh'Var back in as the Klingon destroyer, just to feature it a little more prominently. Not really all that important right now. ;)

Ion Cannon Frigate: Vor'cha. Seems the best slot for it.

Destroyer: Nebula. Again, seems the best slot for it.

Carrier: Negh'Var. I originally had this as both the carrier and destroyer, but I wonder if it might not be better to limit it just to the carrier slot, to make it more rare.

Heavy Cruiser: Galaxy. Got to have it in the mod somewhere.

More to follow...
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Post by korunks » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:59 am

Wow its great to see ITL action again! I like the idea of the ship list, except for a couple of questions. Will the Steam runner class only have tricobalt torpedoes like in the armada game, cause thats was one thing I hated about its position in armada 2. Not being a huge fan of the steam runner class, is there another ship you could stick in there? Maybe The Intrepid or even....*shudders* the Prometheus class. It would be nice to have the Sabre be a buildable ship, but giving the extreme limit on ships I understand why you chose to leave it out. And I kinda Like the idea of the Bailey being the command ship but I admit I am curious as to what the Proton cannon will look like? That being said I like the list and the direction your taking the mod. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Captain Pierce
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Post by Captain Pierce » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:29 am

In my last build of ITL, I had the Intrepid as the Destroyer and the Prometheus as the Dreadnought... and I didn't like either. The Intrepid needs a more maneuverable slot, which it should get in the Kushan Multi-Gun slot, and the thing about the Prometheus is... it's a gimmick ship, and without the gimmick, it's just not that damned interesting. It could still go in somewhere, but hell if I know where... ;)

The Steamrunner will mount some phasers in case anybody gets too close... [img]smile.gif[/img]

And I haven't quite figured out what the Siege Cannon is going to be yet... :(

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Post by Howedar » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:00 am

Could you make the ramming frigate incredibly weak with a ferociously strong attack which does enough self-damage to destroy the ship? You could then float it as a Cardie Dreadnaught-like thing.

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Post by Sjet vs. Kerrigan » Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:26 am

I'm not too sure about the whole "Federation fights the Klingons...and some of itself" idea.

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Post by ThomastheCat » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:51 am

Originally posted by Sjet vs. Kerrigan:
I'm not too sure about the whole "Federation fights the Klingons...and some of itself" idea.
Not sure where you see that happening; he posted the shiplist for the Sect and Kushan sides, not the Beast side. Everyone should be working together!

Anyway, Cap'n, looks great so far!

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Post by Captain Pierce » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:15 pm

Funny you should mention Dreadnought, Howedar... [img]smile.gif[/img] Back when I was first putting the Cardassians in Race_Sect in TW, I tried pretty much that exact thing with Dreadnought, and just couldn't ever make it work. The biggest problem I ran into was that I just couldn't find that very thin line between making it weak enough to blow up when it hits the enemy ship, and strong enough so that it can actually make it to the enemy ship without getting blown up by enemy fire first. [img]smile.gif[/img] That said, I suppose one way to do it would be to make them cheap enough that you can just swarm somebody with them... Doubt I'll do anything with it for ITL, but I might experiment with it a bit more in TW now that I think of it... ;)

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Post by TheOneNamedViper » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:05 pm

Originally posted by Captain Pierce:
And I haven't quite figured out what the Siege Cannon is going to be yet... :(
I just thought of the perfect thing for the slot. :D

A Romulan plasma torpedo, like the original in TOS that wiped out several outposts. It's perfect for the role IMO. And then you can have them find the wreck of some old romulan ship in the junkyard level.

What do you think about it?

Captain Pierce
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Post by Captain Pierce » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:26 pm

Well, two things--1) I was already planning on using updated versions of the plasma weapon on a Romulan ship or two, and 2) I was hoping to come up with something a little more Delta Quadrant for the superweapon. [img]smile.gif[/img] It's certainly an option, though... [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Post by Zeelich » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:34 pm

You should be able to get rid of the Ramming Frigate by setting is research requirment to something that doesn't exist (Like NullTech for example) and making it cost 0 RU's and take years to build.

Of course, I've only done this in HW, I guess I'm not 100% sure it'll work in HW:C, but it should. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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