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The Gaming Union • View topic - Wonderfull, but BTFF ?? (New BTFF release inside!)

Wonderfull, but BTFF ?? (New BTFF release inside!)

Discussions of various Star Trek ships and mods for Cataclysm

Moderators: TheStressPuppy, Dolphoenix, Charvell, Pierce 2: The Sequel

Postby Sterlino » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:21 am

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Postby Captain Pierce » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:21 pm

Well, renditions of the StarFleet Battles "Andromedan" ships can be found here:



IIRC, SFB was done without any sort of licensing orginally, back in the mid-70's when Paramount really didn't give a damn about Trek. [img]smile.gif[/img] Hence their renaming of the Kelvans into "Andromedans."

You'll notice that they're all the same ship. ;) Just rescaled more times than the Klingon Bird-of-Prey. :D Unfortunately, this is the closest thing to "canon" Kelvan ships that there is--which, of course, isn't very close at all. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the design, although I could see using it once as a reference to SFB. Since that's where Stress stole this idea from, it seems only fair... ;)
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Postby Sterlino » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:02 pm

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Postby Captain Pierce » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:37 pm

My biggest problem with the design is that it's just a "flying saucer" with a couple of odd warp nacelles slapped on the back. Not particularly imaginative--even once. :rolleyes:

The only thing we really know about Kelvan design in general is that this:

Image

is what they turn 420-odd of the Enterprise crew into temporarily. [img]smile.gif[/img] Not much to go on, is it?
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Postby TheStressPuppy » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:55 pm

What about Spocks descriptions of the Kelvin true form. IMO they sound like way overgrown sea urchins

BTW i didnt steal anything lol im just basing the ideas for BTFF very losely off the SFB andros cause thats all we have to go on other than that one episode featuring them. The liniar campaign of cat kinda restricts what we can, and cannot do.

I do agree we cant use 20 different versions of the same damn ship, but worse case those SFB ships can act as "filler/fodder/whatever" till we can get some REAL ships in there [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Postby deathblane » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:59 pm

Hmmmmm, maby you could make their ships out of geometric shapes?
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Postby Manticore » Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:27 pm

We are the Kelvans. Lower shields and surrender your planet. We will use your biological and technological distinctiveness. Resistance is useless. You will be annihilated.

;)
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Postby TheStressPuppy » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:12 pm

LOL yea they do have some striking simularities to the borg dont they, that means gene was toying with the idea in the 60's and may have intended them for TOS (if it wasnt cancelled). tho i dont think they woulda been anything like todays borg.

been there done that with the geometric shapes, same problem cant cough up a good enough design.
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Postby Captain Pierce » Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:46 am

I don't see any reason to dick around with the SFB ships as "cannon fodder"--the Beast ships already fulfill that, as far as I'm concerned. We could always do some .shp file tweaking if you wanted to try and make them tougher or something. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Personally, I don't feel we've entirely exhausted the potential of geometric ships. I think that up to this point we've consciously stayed away from the simpler geometric shapes, to try and keep the Kelvans away from the Borg--but I think it may be time to take a second look at that. It may not be the way we want to ultimately go, but given that this is, in many respects, a TOS universe where ENT, TNG, DS9, and VOY have never happened and/or will never happen, I don't think a slight Borg overtone would necessarily be all that bad. Certainly, we're giving them certain aspects of the Borg with the "subjugation" beam.

The other direction to take the Kelvans in could be the "organic" direction--Species 8472 instead of the Borg, as it were. ;) Never thought of it before, but Stress's comment about sea urchins has me thinking that perhaps the Kelvans may originally have been an aquatic life form. Might be interesting...

Here's the thing I keep coming back to, though: the size of the Kelvans in their true form. Spock describes them in the Episode as "immense" or something to that effect, meaning that any ships capable of carrying them in their "true" form are going to have to be HUGE. Probably too huge to work properly in the HW/HWC engine. ;) So, before we get too into ship design, IMO, we need to sit down and figure out how many "Kelvan" ships will be carrying Kelvans in their "true" forms (I personally would suggest just the Naggarok replacement, which I think Stress has suggested would be the real Kelvan mothership, the one that made the crossing from the Andromeda Galaxy) and how many are designed for use by Kelvans in assumed humanoid form. We'll also need to figure out how much of the lineup we want to be "subjugated" Federation/Klingon/Romulan ships, and how many we want to be original Kelvan designs, which of course is in some ways related to the last question; this is an ongoing discussion/argument that Stress and I have been having for, what? Two years, now? More? :D
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Postby TheStressPuppy » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:17 pm

Considering both the geometric and the organic I may be on to something....Not quite geometric but will utilize some basic shape. not quite organic, but clearly based from that. It will keep one thing from the SFB andros and thats the power absorbers in a triangular formation mounted on pylons. the warp "bulges" are gonna be like nothing used on a trek ship b4. it will have a "neck, and a head (based off a certain creature i saw in another sci fi)". It will still stick with my self imposed design philosiphy. NO windows, No Hatches, No visable points of entry/exit. except maybe some cooling vents. Im also thinking of skinning it like the crashed ship we saw in "alien", I got a new design in my head that im gonna try to flesh out! :D

The Kelvin hinted at borg from day 1. They remind me more of the "ur-quan" of star control. (Subjugated races become mind controlled battle thralls boosting thier ranks).

The "true" form doesnt have to be that extreme. "Massive" or "immense" could mean thier true form could be 10-12 feet tall. we dont have to go to the literal extreme with them. as far as ship scale the kelvin heavy cruiser could be say 1/3 larger than a constitution (approx 400-500 meters). and thats basicly what i think would be a good reference to scale the rest of thier fleet by with the dreadnought (command ship) being large enough to dock a HC/Carrier (1/3 larger than the BHR/VF)

We steered clear of making them too borglike with good reason. This is a TOS/Phase 2 based mod. while we all would like to see "cutting edge" tech, and "Cool" looking ships vs. natural design liniage and evolution. it just doesnt happen in this period (save for the weapon FX we r gonna use). Here is where my "slaveish" attention to detail comes in play. I want to keep the true feel and the spirit of TOS in this mod, and NOT make it an "Enterprise" wannabe complete with cardboard cutout characters. While also filling in the missing gap between TOS and TMP.

Cap' we need to go over the shiplist 1 last time. It will take a while b4 we get kelvin but lets fill the "Subjugated" slots up

[size="1"][ 11. February 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: TheStressPuppy ][/size]
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