Miranda

Discussions of various Star Trek ships and mods for Homeworld

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Cleron
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Post by Cleron » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:58 pm

The connie was the better of the two ships easily. Mirandas were basically a scaled down connie with a better over all fire arc, the connie had better shields, armor,higher warp speed & more engine power (aka more power that can be redirected to shields or weapons) Better sensors & finally a crap load more space for science labs med bays cargo & the staff to handel any situation.

In terms of actual class then the Connie in it's day would have been a Battle Ship where as the Miranda would have been a Battle Cruiser, Similar armaments but one is lightly armored for more speed where the other is heavily armed for long drawn out battles... well that's there actually navy terms but as with all Star fleet ships typically the larger the ship the faster it is (warp wise) and that generally goes with impulse to, However maneuvering tends to suffer witch is the only benefit the Marander has over the conie.

Still a battle between the two would be rather close.

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Post by deathblane » Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:14 am

IIRC the battle between the two was rather close :D

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Post by Captain Pierce » Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:01 am

The Constitution class has been identified as a "heavy cruiser"; based on that, I would classify the Miranda as a "light cruiser."

But it goes a litte deeper than that. Based largely on the fact that even low-numbered Mirandas (in particular, the USS Lantree, NCC-1837, as seen in Dolph's pics) have survived well into the 24th century (albeit, in this instance, as a cargo ship), the assumption that I have made is that the Mirandas were constructed as one of the first classes of starship to learn from the "mistakes" of the Constitution class. Now, you're wondering what "mistakes" may have been made in the design of a class of starship that served in Starfleet for at least 50 years, so I'll tell you. ;) IMO, the biggest issue with the Connies is the fact that it took two-and-a-half years (or therabouts) to refit Enterprise between TOS and TMP. When you consider that there don't seem to have been more than the allegedly canon 13 Connies built, and that in the TOS era they seem to have been the vast majority of the Fleet, that just seems to me to be a ridiculous amount of time to have your front-line ships out of action. Given the vast number of bridges we've seen on Mirandas over the course of TNG, it seems reasonable to postulate that the Miranda class was designed for increased upgradeability--as an example, if the Connie is my old Compaq PC, which is a damned nightmare to upgrade, the Miranda (and most likely its compatriots the Constellation and Excelsior) is more like my current PC, that I can replace any part in it I want with a minimum of muss and fuss.

I don't see the Miranda as a replacement for the Connies, though, more as a supplement. The Miranda seems capable of doing most of what a Connie can do, at (presumably) a lower cost.

Comparisons of firepower between the Miranda and Connie refit are tough, as we never see a truly equal battle. We don't really know how powerful the Miranda's "rollbar" phasers are compared to the "standard" primary hull dual-mounts that the Connie and Miranda share; and it bears consideration that the Miranda in all likelihood only has four of the Connie's six dual-mounts--the ventral port and starboard phaser banks seem entirely useless on a Miranda given the fact that they would seem to fire right into the front of the warp nacelles. ;) Certainly, the aft torpedo launchers of the Miranda do give it a certain advantage, but we really have no idea how much of an advantage.

I would point out, also, that saying that the Connie had better shields, armor, speed, power, and/or sensors is entirely conjecture, as there's never been any canon info of this sort bandied about.

Although we don't know for sure, it would seem likely that the concept of powering phasers from the warp drive was abandonded after TMP, and that both the Connies and Mirandas had more conventional phaser power systems. IIRC, in TWOK, Enterprise got off a fair few phaser blasts without the benefit of any warp power (which was off-line through most of the film). On the same topic, since the Enteprise Engineering set seems to have been re-used for the Reliant, the matter/antimatter reactors of the two classes were apparently pretty similar. Even with the extra decks added to the aft section of the Miranda saucers, it would seem that the Miranda M/AMR couldn't have been as "tall" as that of the Connie, but what difference that possibly could make, I can't imagine. It's been theorized somewhere, I believe, that the "taller" the M/AMR assembly, the more efficient it is; this really makes no sense in terms of real physics, but in the Trek reality of "intermix ratios" I suppose it's at least reasonable. (What "intermix ratio"? A matter/antimatter reaction, as far as my physics knowledge goes, is a simple 1:1 reaction; injecting more of either reactant should have no effect on power without injecting a corresponding amount of its counterpart...)

Finally, crew numbers would, I would imagine, be driven by role. A TMP-era Miranda on a mission like that of the Reliant would need a rather larger crew than, say, the Lantree on its TNG-era cargo runs. The DS9 pilot, "Emissary," also suggests that at least some Mirandas (or variants thereof) were carrying families as well as crew in the TNG era; given a finite amount of interior volume, this would suggest a reduction in the amount of crew needed to run the ship even on more important missions.

I hope at least some of this made sense; I've just gotten back from vacation, and my brain is admittedly a bit warped from spending entirely too much of the past week crammed inside a Plymouth Neon with my wife and sometimes a friend... Image

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Cleron
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Post by Cleron » Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:53 am

The connie never made it to the 24th cent because it's role was taken over by bigger and better ships like the Excel & Ambas, the Miranda however because of it's cheap cost, faster built time, smaller crew & yet similar fire power meant that it could be relegated to patrol craft easily, the connie was simply never meant to be any thing bar what it was, with more advanced systems higher running costs & longer repair times it could never compete with the Miranda in any contest bar that of war. (it should be noted that the TWOK battle was heavy stacted on the Miranda's side)


Consider it like this. You can buy two cars... the Connie dose 0-100 in 4 seconds & the Miranda dose 0-100 in 4.8 Seconds, the connie clearly wins in this area but is also Costs twice as much to build & repair so at the end of the day what do you buy ? 2 Mirandas of course, you get 2 ships for the same amount as the one connie and end up with more firepower. It is sad because in it's day the connie was a grand ship but that's what comes of a design that's not flexible enough.


Finally i was always given the impression that the Miranda was the older of the two ships.

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Post by TheStressPuppy » Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:49 pm

The age of the miranda is entirely speculation, we dont have any canon source for info on that, it is generally assumed the mirandas were as old or slightly newer than the connie. also, i cant belive this thread is outdoing the news of relic's release of the HW1 source [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 21. September 2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: TheStressPuppy ]

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Post by InocPrime » Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:12 pm

Lol :D I'm a bit shocked as well [img]tongue.gif[/img] can't wait to get working with that engine [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Cleron
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Post by Cleron » Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:35 pm

The only cannon info says the the Miranda was built some time before 2285 (Conn came out 2245) and the Reliant was at the end of her life by that stage, or at the very least to be mothballed.

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Post by Captain Pierce » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:53 pm

And this would be from?

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Cleron
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Post by Cleron » Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:03 pm

StarTrek.com, but i did stuff up on the end of the life thing, i read it wrong, My bad [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 21. September 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Cleron ]

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