First image of USS Defiant from "In the Mirror Darkly"

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maxdamage
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Post by maxdamage » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:18 pm

Originally posted by Pierce 2: The Sequel:
[QB] Some of you may know that the next two episodes of Enterprise (after tonite's rather useless Orion episode) are going to take place in the so-called Mirror Universe, where the counterparts of the NX-01's crew will find the abandoned USS Defiant, the Constitution-class starship lost in the "real" Trek universe during the TOS Episode "Tholian Web."
Ummmm.How can a ship that disappeared into the mirror universe in the TOS era be found by crew who were probably dead or very old men when the USS Defiant was lost when it disappeared into the mirror universe?

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[ 18. April 2005, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: maxdamage ]

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Post by Manticore » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:14 pm

Because it also went back in time...
Lord Vorkosigan <i>does not</i> always get what he wants!

Let's be about it.

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Post by maxdamage » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:20 am

Originally posted by Manticore:
Because it also went back in time...
Really?I did not know that!All I know is that the ship went into some spatial fold into a mirror universe and that was it!

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Post by Pierce 2: The Sequel » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:48 am

Well, you see, Max, this is my main problem with the whole thing.

There is, as you just pointed out, absolutely no indication in "The Tholian Web" that Defiant was moving backward in time. If she was moving in any temporal direction, it would have to have been forward, because Kirk's air supply (and I don't mean the Muzak in his spacesuit :D ) lasted quite a bit longer than it should have. (As a sidebar here, various non-canon sources, in particular the old FASA boardgame, took this to mean that time worked differently in whatever dimension the Defiant was crossing into, and postulated that the Excelsior's "transwarp" drive was actually a way to move a ship into that dimension rather than into subspace, to achieve faster speeds since time ran slower, or some damn thing. Image )

This is symptomatic of Manny Coto's run as showrunner on Enterprise, though--he's become almost obsessed with cramming as many references to other shows as possible into his episodes, and (IMO, anyway) he's gone over the line. Earlier in the year, I noticed this problem in the "Augment" arc, when he had Dr. Soong set course for Klach'd'kel Bracht (where DS9 mentioned that Kor once fought an epic battle against the Romulans). A nice little reference, except that he immediately went on to add that Earth called it "The Briar Patch." Why? What does that add? There was no indication in "Insurrection" that the Briar Patch was anywhere near Klingon or Romulan space. One or the other is fine (although Klach'd'kel Bracht is the better reference, considering that they were in Klingon territory already), but together they just don't add up. Ditto for the Defiant/Mirror Universe combo--you want to do a Mirror Universe story, Manny? Fine, go ahead, whatever. I personally think that DS9 overdid the hell out of the MU, but whatever. You want to f**k up your show with more useless time travel by bringing the Defiant back? Again: fine, go ahead, whatever. Probably half of the entire population of Trek fans think that time travel has been overused, but whatever. But do you have to have both?

Even dropping the time travel part for a minute, do we really need another way into the Mirror Universe? We already had at least 3: transporting during an ion storm, runabout engine malfunctions in wormholes, and modified transporters that seemed to let people cross-over at will. Now we can add the "interphase" phenomenon as well. Great. How many more ways are there, anyway? If I turn right instead of left on my way to work tomorrow, will I wind up in the mirror universe? I already have a goatee--does that mean I'm the evil me, and in the Mirror Universe I'll be the good me, like Cartman was in that one South Park episode? :D

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Post by Crook » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:07 pm

Shame that there are a few good episodes towards the shows end.

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Post by RK » Mon May 02, 2005 7:31 pm

There seems to be some missinformation regarding the TMP enterprise model. The same model was used for all 6 movies. If you note the short amount of screen time it has in ST IV, it is not too logical that they built an entirely new model. Also, the special effects team who did ST V has reported that they received the model in bad shape. Someone had painted one whole side matt gray and they had to repaint the entire model.

Each era Enterprise is quite different. NX-01 is metallic. No sign of paint. TOS 1701 is smooth and clean and obviously painted with signs of weathering. TMP 1701 and 1701-a are new and show some updating of hullplating. 1701-B is from the same era and looks the same. 1701-C is more blueish and looks quite different from B or D. 1701-D is more rough and textured, and yet has a smooth flowing shape. 1701-E is almost white and has stark angled features that affect its surface texture. There was no reason to alter the TOS model from the smooth painted surface we are all familiar with when it is so obviously featured in the TOS episode. If you notice, even the TOS sound effects were used to keep consistant with a TOS era ship. Only the set and model lighting was different.

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