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Charvell
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Post by Charvell » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:13 pm

Unfortunately you fall in the category of being an extreme linear thinker and this is a shame because no matter how much I try, you will not understand. A metaphor and a model are not a fact. You are incapable of grasping any form of abstract or out of the box thinking. You don't comprehend more than your five limited senses relay to you. I doubt you are capable of more than three dimentional thinking. You may know all the facts but you will not be able to view the picture they paint. Not personal, just an observation. Unfortunately, you will not be capable of understanding what I've just said and will construde it as an attack on your foundation (grounding).

So. Aside from your lack of an apology for the personal attacks you've made, which tells me you think you have done nothing to apologize for and I know why you think this way, I see no point in further dialogue.

[ 04. August 2005, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Charvell ]

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Charvell
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Post by Charvell » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:43 pm

Shadow. You sound like a good man at heart and I would be lying if I thought you didn't actually know God. The word eludes you however the principles seem to want to shine through. This is a hard subject to discuss because everyone seems to want to wrap it up and put a lable on it.

I don't attend church and I'm not a religious man. Don't make the mistake of seeing me as a group or as an extremist. I stand alone and can not be labled. My goal is to be as open minded, rounded and grounded as I can be, so nothing is out of the question or beneath me; not science, faith, logic, speculation, facts or feelings.
So please Tina understand I don’t believe I have a voice of “heart" or "spirit". who I am lives on the outside I don’t have to wait for death to free it , my mind is free and open I am who I am because of the journey of my life , and when death comes my journey will end and so will what is my essence or soul if that term makes you feel more comfortable. Many Religious people I feel spend most of their life’s thinking on the ever after and never on the here and now so they miss the journey and never become alive, those are the people who will just become the passengers on some one else’s ride , no ta I think I will drive myself.
The human body, at the instant of death, looses about 6 ounces of weight... Why?

Experiments show that people can actually leave their bodies, travel to places they've never been or seen, return to relay information that they could not have possibly gotten in any other way... Why?

I take a piece of paper, fold it twice then unfold it again, lay it on the dining room table, "will" it to spin and it does... Why?

[ 04. August 2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Charvell ]

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:13 pm

Originally posted by Charvell:
The human body, at the instant of death, looses about 6 ounces of weight... Why?

Experiments show that people can actually leave their bodies, travel to places they've never been or seen, return to relay information that they could not have possibly gotten in any other way... Why?

I take a piece of paper, fold it twice then unfold it again, lay it on the dining room table, "will" it to spin and it does... Why?
Lol. You talk SUCH utter bollocks sometimes that you should be ashamed of yourself. After that embarassing show, I've GOT to bow out here.

You're just too fucking stupid if you beleive any of that. It's not suprising though, given an american education.

No offense.

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Meurig
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Post by Meurig » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:22 pm

Jesus Christ, Charvell. Originally I thought you were just a bit of a misguided bible basher, but you're fucking nuts.

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The_One
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Post by The_One » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:15 pm

Time for another one of these, methinks...

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bzb
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Post by bzb » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:58 pm

Originally posted by Charvell:
You're confusing the English bulldog with the pit bull.

Exerpts from the AKC Bulldog breed standards

Temperament:

The disposition should be equable and kind, resolute and courageous (not vicious or aggressive), and demeanor should be pacific and dignified. These attributes should be countenanced by the expression and behavior.

The Bulldog, to the best of our knowledge, had its origin in the British Isles. The name "bull" was applied because of the dog's use in the sport of bull baiting, which was extremely cruel. The original Bulldog had to be very ferocious and so savage and courageous as to be almost insensitive to pain.

In 1835 dog fighting as a sport became illegal in England. Therefore, the English Bulldog had outlived his usefulness and his days were numbered. However, there were dog lovers who felt deep disappointment at the passing of the breed, and they set themselves the task of preserving it. They proceeded to eliminate the undesirable fierce characteristics and to preserve and accentuate the finer qualities. Within a few generations, the English Bulldog became one of the finest physical specimens, minus its original viciousness.

We may be justly proud of the Bulldog we know today, and we must express our gratitude to our British cousins, who realized the value of the English Bull sufficiently to preserve him for posterity.
nah, you missed the point, they are cruel breeds of dog almost doomed to suffering by design.
The pit bull is a terrier, not a bulldog. Inspite of the pit bulls temperament the breed, as with most terriers, is 'healthy' and not so prown to having heart attacks because it simply cant breath!

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Gust0o
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Post by Gust0o » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:32 pm

Unfortunately you fall in the category of being an extreme linear thinker and this is a shame because no matter how much I try, you will not understand. A metaphor and a model are not a fact. You are incapable of grasping any form of abstract or out of the box thinking. You don't comprehend more than your five limited senses relay to you. I doubt you are capable of more than three dimentional thinking. You may know all the facts but you will not be able to view the picture they paint.
But you seem to be equally guilty of this Charvell; even allowing for a highly rational view of the world, you still don't see this 'picture' - that, rationally, there is no call to god as the final answer.

Certainly, you can claim that this is an example of 'out of the box' thinking - but you have, then, to accept it's complete lack of basis in the reality of the world; and, in part, seeking the restructuring of that reality. You're taking a mental tangent.

Crook's correct, and without recourse to some undefinable quantity, some unproven, apparently highly personal, quantity, you offer little to refute him.

But that's always been the case with faith...

Which is why so many here simply cannot rely upon it.

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Charvell
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Post by Charvell » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:38 am

I don't attend church and I'm not a religious man. Don't make the mistake of seeing me as a group or as an extremist. I stand alone and can not be labled. My goal is to be as open minded, rounded and grounded as I can be, so nothing is out of the question or beneath me; not science, faith, logic, speculation, facts or feelings.
The US government and the former USSR both did extensive research into these and other paranormal phenomenon. Research is still going on throuout this country "and others". It's not BS, it's real and it flies in the face of your logic and you can't handle it. I didn't try to relate this to God or anything else. I simply was asking questions.

It's puzzling but understandable I suppose; some of you regard yourselves as completely open minded and learned however portraying a completely line of sight attitude toward anything you can't understand to whatever doesn't fit your very strict mold of how things should be. Some of you even go so far as to throw personal insults at me, my wife, others who post a different point of view... A page back I asked Crook to refute my comments with evidence to the contrary but he gave none. All he could muster was more insults (personal and otherwise) and criticism, not only of me but my country, Christians, midwesterners... That seems to me to be a very closed minded and biggotted response not to mention proving absolutely nothing because he offered absolutely nothing.

More insults and foul language came from several others who, instead of making a point, only seem to be able to further the closed minded aspect of this thread.

Tip of the iceburg: I'm 49, I've been around the block several times, been an athiest, traveled the country with a rock band for 10 years, play a mean (Charvell) guitar, design build and fly RC airplanes and know the principles of aerodynamics and flight, rode more miles on aircraft than most of you have dreamed. If I want it, and I don't have it, I find a way to get it or I learn what it takes to do the job and I build it. I'm probably more talented, well known, well liked, and a more usefull member of society than most of you....Why do I raise English bulldogs? Because I get "at least" $1500.00 for a fuckin puppy. Why the hell else would I raise them?

But I'm a stooopid American remember?

Think what you want... You guys are lame.

[ 05. August 2005, 04:40 AM: Message edited by: Charvell ]

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Crook
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Post by Crook » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:30 am

Originally posted by Charvell:
Tip of the iceburg: I'm 49, I've been around the block several times, been an athiest, traveled the country with a rock band for 10 years, play a mean (Charvell) guitar, design build and fly RC airplanes and know the principles of aerodynamics and flight, rode more miles on aircraft than most of you have dreamed. If I want it, and I don't have it, I find a way to get it or I learn what it takes to do the job and I build it. I'm probably more talented, well known, well liked, and a more usefull member of society than most of you....Why do I raise English bulldogs? Because I get "at least" $1500.00 for a fuckin puppy. Why the hell else would I raise them?

But I'm a stooopid American remember?

Think what you want... You guys are lame.
That's just sad. I doubt that anyone cares that you fly RC planes, or have actually been on an aircraft, or play guitar. We're not a fan club, and it doesn't make you interesting.

That list of pursuits doesn't seem like anything other than selfish, does it? Things to make you happy. Owning / flying RC planes. Playing guitar. Breeding dogs and making money. All just benefits you, doesn't it? What have you done to benefit other people in your life? Nothing significant? Not done VSO? Not done Red Cross? Massive charity work? You've had the time. No, you just list the things you THINK are significant, which in the end makes you cheap.

I think what people might care about is that you breed deformed dogs with a short lifespan and a multitude of health problems, just for money. You cruel bastard.

You've ably demonstrated your total, typical christian, typical american, over stated arrogance by plainly claiming that you're more talented, well liked, well known and useful than most of us here. It must just kill you to be so perfect? Arrogant bastard.

Few thoughts for you to digest:

If we're all so much worse than you, why are you here? Just fuck off. [img]smile.gif[/img]

At 49 someone who was an atheist and is now the faithful just shows your utter lack of direction in life, and now you've just latched onto something that seems meaningful, because lots of other idiots have done the same before you. You're a sheep.

And the final thought to take on board. You're STILL wrong about all the science, especially the paranormal bollocks about remote viewing and the soul weighing in at 6 ounces or whatever. Utter, utter bollocks. How can someone so wrong be right? Oh yeah, you have faith.

You're a complete fool.

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Gust0o
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Post by Gust0o » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:43 am

We're still closed minded? And your basis for this is our refusal to agree with you?

And it hinges on this agreement with yourself - your person - as your ultimate arguments, at least with regards to the existence of god, are wrapped into your own personality.

I don't think most of us can make the leap of faith, into the unknown - because it is an unknown, for all intents. There's no proof, no rational basis for actual existence in this context. But that, I suppose, is the beauty of faith; it's either the ultimate in hope or the ultimate in self-sustaining fallacy.

Either way, it's not something I can buy into; and, thankyou mr-round-the-block-49-years-young, that doesn't make me closed-minded. Your refusal to accept such an explanation, and to sign off with 'you guys are lame', probably inclines you more to such a condition.

I don't think you've done yourself any favours; certainly your wife, bless her, might agree with you... but all of the above personal bullshit attached to your last post; your point is?

I've been flying since the womb, want to compare air miles at the Pearly Gates? I'm 23, I've taken more pills than I should and fucked more than I have the ability to remember, I hold 2 degrees and my employer is aiming me for a third - I'm not perfect, but any time you'd like to measure dicks, I'm game, pm me.

In the meantime, I'm done.

[ 05. August 2005, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Gust0o ]

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